Dumbass America: If we like public libraries, why do we hate public health care?

Submitted by Eternity on Tue, 08/18/2009 - 11:47.

Max Eternity - It never ceases to amaze me at how Americans fail time and time again to connect the simplest dots.  How, something as simple as public healthcare can morph into a monstrosity of a conundrum.  This is something so simple a baby could figure it out.  So, case in point...very simply, ask yourself this?  What's the difference between public libraries and public health [care] insurance?  It's the exact same argument.  Hence, why our "socialist" President and the "liberal media" has not been able to articulte this super-simple analysis, truly defies all reason and logic. 

And we wonder why Bill Maher calls America dumb.

I typically abscond from calling someone dumb, but on this subject I have no other adjective to describe what I'm witnessing right now in America.  It's dumb shit. 

Forget the insider lingo, it's time to spell it out plain for all the working and middle class dummies, who, drunk on all the goddamn rhethoric about being a superpower (really being a superposer) think that they got it so good in this sinking ship of a nation.  So here it is.  PUBLIC HEATHCARE IS THE SAME AS PUBLIC LIBRARIES.  They are undeniable one and the same; a human right that is vital to the very survival of any industrialized nation.  That's the winning argument--end of story!  And anyone who would attempt to sabotage public healthcare from happening should be compared to a person who would demolish America's public library system.  Because that is essentially the net result that we as a people are mired in right now. 

Would you vote for a privatized public library system???  Would you vote for a private fire department???  Would you vote that all schools become private???  Then why don't we have public healthcare???

In the Western world, our healthcare system is ranked #37.  So without a doubt, tt's time we do what Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Ukraine and The UK have already done...in many cases more than 40 years ago.  It's time for America to provide healthcare for all.


I am for healthcare for

I am for healthcare for all. 

Unfortunately there is a large number of people who are against it.  Thus the battle.  Some people don't want to pay for someone else's health care.  There are most likely people out there who don't want the libraries either. 


i don't like paying for someone else's corporate welfare either , especially not corporate farming subsidies and especially when I'm not a capitalist.

Dumbass America

  Libraries, schools, healthcare...what is the common denominator, folks?  We have no future, if we do not take care of the children...

Well- and succintly put, Max

Those who have should share  a bit with those who don't.  Egaliteranism = share the wealth.  I abhoar I've-got-mind-now-you-get-yours attitudes.  Kate

Egaliteranism = share the wealth

be careful with the egalitarianism -

i was once attacked verbally (and nearly physically) by one of these self-proclaimed do-gooders with the line of:

"Oh you're soooooo egalitarianism.  Don't go Gandhi on me."


not kidding.  the egalitarianism word always makes me laugh for that reason.  (had to conclude my attacker was mentally ill and not worth bothering with)

be careful skd0333 - you may not have witnessed the level of lunancy that exists on these boards and in these hoods.  though i suspect you have.

and i do still find egalitarianism a reasonable position in matters of community and working towards tolerance of others.




Lines in the sand

bj, we don't have to reduce ourselves to poverty status to share with others.  I think we all need to be more tolerant and respectful, especially when we disagree.   I am not suggesting we roll over.  I also believe we need to stop complaining and take action.  Area is littered -   clean it up; high weeds - do a good turn and mow it yourself.  I don't see much of that going on in my neighborhood.  Ward 14 resident suggested we clean up around Lincoln West.  No one responded although there may not have been enough time. I'm hopeful  Less time on the net/more time working in the neighborhood. 

Have had tires slashed, windows broken, car spray painted and right now, a friend tells me a member of this group is circulating emails about me which I find amusing.  It's all silliness.  

peace to you as well . Kate


didn't see this earlier


i agree we need not >>reduce ourselves to poverty status to share with others<<

quite frankly extending oneself beyond one's ability to take care of oneself reduces or eliminates one's ability to share much if anything. i'm all for pitching in, but i do not respond well to being bullied into it - which some have tried.

and i do understand the silliness of the circulating emails (i'd call gossip mill)

my last post elsewhere regarding having been targeted by code enforcement - waking up to property damage is part of my experience also.   

good luck

peace as well back at ya

Public libraries, public fire departments, public streets...

Public libraries, public fire departments, public streets, public schools, public sewers, sidewalks...this is the issue here.  Who here would call this WELFARE????

Don't buy into the scare tactic words like WELFARE AND SOCIALISM, and when you think of those words, think: the fire department, the socialized, welfare fire department.  I mean, say that out loud and you'll get laughed out of the room.

What a ridiculous notion, and yet here we are giving Sarah Palin all the air time she desires to spread copious amounts of disinformation and mass paranoia.

Why have we allowed the anti-human, psychotic, blood-thirsty, violent, ultra-right to beat our psyches to a pulp, to such an extent that Americans equate civility with being lazy, cowardly and bad?

Are you lazy because you aren't a fireman, a librarian, a street paver?  This is the psych-op of the WRONG party; drawing the mental equation that welfare = lazy...because public healthcare is welfare.  Right?

Get it...when people think public healthcare, they've been trained to be humiliated and feel ashamed...mind-fucked into believing they will become communist, welfare queens.

What do you hear when you hear someone being called socialist???  Welfare criminal???  How does it feel to be called those things???  Isn't it kinda like being called a fag or homo or lesbo or nigger or white trash???

Remember Bush's Freedom Fries?

But the message is clear, America supports public fire departments and libraries because it's the sanest approach to the survival of civil society.  Thus, abundant access to healthcare for all is the logical next step toward restoring this nation to it's former glory.

How good would it make you feel to know that we are a nation that takes care of it's people; that we stick together as a family!?!?!?!

Yes, I agree.  But it all

Yes, I agree.  But it all starts at the local level.  Thus my outrage at the use of the words 'dependency kick' by someone opposed to my view about the noise barriers.

See, it all depends on whether or not YOU want or need the service.  If you want it or need it, if it somehow benefits you, such as roads, firefighters, police protection, etc. then it is okay for everyone to pay for it,  if you don't need it, or have enough money to pay for it without any help, then it is welfare or socialism.  Could the key to change be cognizance of the needs of others besides ourselves?



Yes it could

Ward 14, I'm probably quite a bit older than most here.  Over the years, I've seen neighborhoods collectively lose tolerance, respect and plain, simple kindness as a trend.  There's another good word we need to think about.  Concensus - something for you/something for me.  I don't see people trying to work things out.  Once again, it's just lines in the sand.....

I'd prefer not to see noise barriers but if they could look like the ones I saw in Phoenix which were stunning works of  public art,  I'd find that acceptable. (Don't think that will happen) You'd be happy.  I'd be happy.  We can't begin to solve problems until we work together.  I also think ODOT dollars better spent giving homeowners grants to soundproof houses in conjunction with sound-reducing plantings.  I respect your desire to live in peace and quiet.  In talking things out, there might be solutions no one has presented/thought of to date.  In stead, there will probably be a knock-down fight with one side prevailing, everyone unhappy and some people pretty pissed off.  Totally unnecessary.  Kate 

Kate, let me assure you that

Kate, let me assure you that I wll not fight if I lose the battle over the walls.  I won't have any hard feelings towards anyone over that...but I do have hard feelings when someone is downright nasty during the debate.  But, you already know about that so no need to rehash. I agree that a compromise would be best.  Perhaps the walls with some greenery planted in front of them, the best of both options.  And this way if the walls crumble like some think they will it won't be as noticible behind the greenery.  Soundproofing would be good for the indoors, but some of us really like to spend time outdoors and enjoy our backyards.  As much as I would like the walls I won't get nasty to get them.  No dirty tricks up my sleeve, just my honest opinion.  I like your idea of finding solutions that would benefit everyone.  A win-win would be best.  Everyone gets a little something and no one is left to feel like they are not important.


I tried to find the above noise barriers that you referenced above figuring that it would be great if there was something that everyone could live with. It looks like a lot went into the barrier research in Phoenix. There is the "T" and a "transparent" barrier. Can you tell us more and I will find a link for people. It is interesting that there are so many options available in another state. 

Phoenix Noise Barriers

I was so taken with Phoenix barriers - 30-40 different types  to address variety of situations and all wonderful  - that I took photos.  Will find and post if I can figure out  how to do it.  Maybe someone would email me short tutorial.  They have public art competitions to design and decorate.  You might find something on Phoenix Public Art.  ADOT had to allow certain percentage, State and local public arts/culture groups kicked in and believe me, worth every penny!  kd


Now you are inspiring

The Waterloo Arts District is bounded on one side by a barrier wall and I suggested the neighborhood have movie nights where they project movies on the back (neighborhood) side of the walls... the walls are ugly but at least they could be used for something good a few hours a week.

There are surely smart things to do to make freeways work better in our neighborhoods... although in times of global warming I will question the intelligence of barrier walls, freeways and Phoenix, in general.

Disrupt IT

phoenix noise barriers

This link will take readers to an article about various noise barriers, and you have to get 2/3's of the way into it to read what they have done in Phoenix, which is awesome. The public participated in the final product. It is food for thought, and maybe it is time to challenge our acceptance of just the options presented to us.


Medical attention is a basic human right

As a family, if it's pizza night, you eat pizza.  If you don't like the toppings, you pick them off, but you do now throw all the food in the garbage and storm out of the room calling everybody socialist.  And, you certainly don't show up at the dinner table with a gun.

Come on already!

Americans need to grow up.  It's called accepting the good with the bad. 

I hate paying taxes, which are going to go toward a federal government budget that spends the vast majority of it's dollars on a war machine.  How much of my money has been killed to burn Iraqi children alive--to pay Blackwater to rape Iraqi women--to finance Abu Graib death camp?  However, you don't seem me out in the streets with a gun acting like a royal jackass, using lies and other propoganda scare tactics in order to bend public opinion my way.

I have a few complaints about Obama, and my lists of complaints against folks like Bush-Plalin-Cheney-Limbaugh-Oreilly are endless.  Nonetheless, I would never in a million years suggest, that because this hateful, vengeful, cynical, bitter, shameless lot behaves in a cruel, evil fashion that they should be denied access to a public library or if their house should be on fire, they should be denied access to fire department services.  Never.  Why, because they are American citizens.  Whether or not I like it, they are just like me when it comes to using public services that supply basic human rights, like literacy, public safety, etc.

Medical attention is a basic human right.  It is a national security issue, that could easily be defined as a form of public safety.  Think the CDC.

There's nothing to be confused about here.

Clean water is a basic human right.  Access to literacy is a basic human right.  Medical attention is a basic human right. 


I listen to people in common everyday conversation use Palin-speak and I cringe. Other the hand, hearing Palin speak at the National Republican convention got me out of my chair and out door knocking and making phone calls.

On Sunday, I was at a function seated next to a recently retired real esate agent who is bitter about the bust of the bubble. I listened to him tell me how he hates government instrusion into our lives and the move to free health care that means that people really won't have to work. I could only laugh and say it will never be "free" and by the way, how is Medicare? Then he went on about this and  that, and I asked him: do you like having your city streets repaired? the traffic light changed when it stops working? the trash pick up? the mail being delivered to your home? His wife told me later it was a rare moment of speechlessness for the guy. And it was all polite and kind.

Max is so right that we have to point out the reality of it all.  The ultraconserative have owned the arguement for way too long. There are so many people who are caught in the middle of these arguments and tend to go with who is the loudest and longest. We have to make people really think about this.

We don't have to be loud or take long to point out how much better our life is  because of government and that public health care will only make that better. No more Medicaid, no welfare arguements, better for companies that struggle with health insurance, and so on.

Health care has been a huge business in the US. It is time to level the playing field.

Mostly, it is because we are the last industrialized nation to not do it. It is the right thing to do.

where does the money go?

 I wish people were as passionate about where all the federal money goes.

Can we identify the Trillions of dollars spent into the militray industry? May i assure you it isn't going to pay soldiers' wages or benefits to their families whne they are killed,a nd it sure as heck isn't going into supporting them when they get out of the hell hole we have created - the middle East.

Can we identify the Trillions of dollars spent to subsidize and support corporations - WIC and food stamps and subsidized housing are a mere pittance compared to what we give the wealthy.

The "conservatives" eviscerated our Constitution and now their supporters are thumping liberty bells and screaming out in their make-believe Paul Revere outfits like they have been the "patriots" all along.... give me a break.


I agree that medical care is

I agree that medical care is a basic human right.  But, there are many who don't.  Thus, the debate.  I just wish Obama would stop trying to be so diplomatic and stop trying to please everyone and do what he knows must be done. 


Obama won by not wavering and repeating his message. The reaction to the health care debate is being fueled by the insurance and related interests. The difference here is that he has to get congress to agree with him and they are being lobbied heavily against passage of reform. 

you hit the nail on the head -





He is such a real change from 8 years of GW. I am still in awe of a president that can not only speak in complete sentences but walk while doing so. 

He is a politician, none the less, and he is fair game as that is how he is playing it. 

and he can walk and chew gum

 at the same time too...

now could he please show down the insurance and pharmaceutical industries so Americans don't die slow, unnecessary deaths?

could someone? I know Kucinich could, but Americans didn't want anyone with balls tHAt big...


Diplomacy and cowardice are not one and the same

While I must confess, having a person in the White House who is handsome, articulate, digitally saavy and non-White, is rather refreshing.  It's certainly different, if nothing else.  However, for as much as President Obama's supporters, myself included, like to champion his attributes (and there are plenty) we must not allow ourselves to be seduced into compliancy, complacency, complicity and silence.

Obama is certainly a smooth customer, who is most in his element when sweet talking--calming the masses.  That said, is that always the medicine we always need?

It is my opinion that being sedate 24-7 is not the ultimate panacea.  For as an artist, I can promise you this, passion, force and laser focus are essential tenents for success.  Yet, let's not confuse this with being a wild-eyed fool.  Because one can be passionate, without being violent, while also being sane; living a healthy, productive, sustainable life.

Is it taboo to criticize President Obama?  Am I a heretic for implying that he might be a typical, card-carrying demo-corporate-crat?

The Democrats may not be as greedy as the Republicans, but they are notorious for being cowards.  And looking at Obama's track record thus far, he seems to fit right in; never missing the chance to cave to the big money interest and power-elite.

He caved on the bank issue, giving trillions of taxpayersd dollars to private interests...cowardice.  He caved on releasing all the Abu Graib photos...cowardice.  He caved on providing relief to families struggling with forclosures...cowardice.  He caved on mountaintop removal--the coal industry...cowardice.  He caved on warrantless wiretapping...cowardice.

Need I continue?

Obama wrote a book about audacity and hope.  Sure sure...I feel the hope.  I even feel the love.  But where's the audacity?  Is this man really practicing what he preaches.

Obama promised his supporters some home runs, but as far as I can tell, the Bush crowd is still getting every thing they want, while the rest of us are privy to yet another pep talk from Obama, all the while he fumbles and fails to catch yet another pop-up ball in the outfield.

Come on butterfingers, get with it!

PD rigs the numbers

Popular content--check the sidebar at REALNEO and you will know the content drawing the most visitors to this site.  We don't rig the numbers.  The PD uses the Most Comments feature to direct viewers attention.  Where are the numbers according to the PD?  All sports, all day, all night?  What about Connie Schultz's recent articles on healthcare reform with a 322 and 443 comments? 

Does this not trump the 287 comments on who wins the Browns QB competition?

Issues that matter? 



On Obama's lack of combativness, Robert Reich says so too

In my prior comment, I was talking about how President Obama seems to mask his cowardice with charm and diplomacy.  Perhaps that analysis is a bit oversimplified, but I stand by it.  And it seems that Robert Reich, former Labor Secretary, shares in my belief.  From an commentary he wrote today, in part he says:

"The President's centeredness, calm, and dignity inspire trust but also suggest a certain lack of combativeness, a reluctance to express indignation, and an unwillingness to identify enemies -- resulting in a tendency toward compromise even at the early stages of controversy."

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.  Hey...look, I'm all for keepin' the peace and warm fuzzy hugs, but when you've got a cabal of feral bullies on your hands, a warm fuzzy hug is just going to get you a black eye, which in the end, might be what it takes to wake you up to the real importance of healthcare for all.

Reich is so fired up about the healthcare fiasco, he's now calling for a march on Washington.  I'm willing to let the President slide from time to time, but on this issue, all I know is, he better bring home the bacon or I might have to put my marching shoes on and join Mr. Reich. 

So forget the hemming and hawing, and shirtless pictures of Obama on the beach.  I voted for a winner; someone who would stand up to the likes of Cheney-Palin.

I voted for YES WE CAN

I voted for some accountability too.  Somthing that Obama was all about once upon a time, as Allison Kilkinney reminds us of in here recent piece where she quotes Obama saying:

Back in 2005, Obama wrote a diary entry over at Daily Kos where he wrote "In order to beat [the Republican Party,] it is necessary for Democrats to get some backbone, give as good as they get, brook no compromise, drive out Democrats who are interested in 'appeasing' the right wing, and enforce a more clearly progressive agenda."

The American Way? Could it

The American Way?

Could it be possible that President Obama is letting the people take the lead on this?  How many who support single payer took the time to write or call their representatives to voice their support?  I think if we want change we have to become more politically active by calling or writing our reps to let them know what we, the people, want.


Ward14, I am guilty

 I will contact reps tomorrow.  Thanks for kick in the butt!

Obama, not his supporters, dropped the ball

As I have been saying since I first observed President Obama's continued embrace of (un)Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping and his unilateral, multi-trillion dollar giveaway to the private banking industry, Obama is not speaking truth to power; as he said he would should he get elected.  Well, he got elected, and yet in some ways it would appear that our President is slowly morphing into a lapdog for the Bush-Palin crowd; occassionally throwing a table scrap to his adoring fans who continue to pledge blind allegance. 

We're not the wife, we're that other woman.  You know, the one he won't be seen holding hands with...the Progressives.  And as with so many issues, in his haste to coddle and console the lunatic right, as Bill Maher calls 'em, it is starting to show that Obama has begun to alienate (in his first year...no less) the very crowd that got him elected. 

This is to say nothing of the Iraq, Afghan wars or the proxy Pakistan war, which the majority of Americans do not support.

Please see my latest blog (with video) post entitled "Does Obama Lack the Courage of His Convictions?" where I quote Huffington and others."

Somethings got to give.  On healthcare, Obama must follow through.

the american way

You may be onto something. If we just sit back and wait for "it to happen" we all know what WILL happen. If we don't speak up, and let our elected representatives know, let the media know, and anyone that we can, the conseratives can rightfully say that they represent the will of the nation because they are hearing from their people. Let's get e-mail addresses up on this site for the elected reps and cc the media. Forward the info to friends and family.


Bigotry is official policy?

  What's next?  No ugly people need apply?  What constitutes "fat?"  The Clinic's Toby Cosgrove wishes the law would allow him to discriminate in hiring based on weight.

thank youthank youthank youthank youthank youthank you

 and lets not even get into all the surveillance he has allowed to continue, UNABATED, despite his campaign promises - totally and completely within his purview.


as for single payer - they didn't even allow them to sit at the table - they were kicked out and arrested at the hearings because the only way they could get their voice/opinions heard was to disrupt.

give me a fricking break - call your congressman.... the people AREN"T taking the lead on this - the industries are - with a stranglehold.