I do not recommend anyone do anything they believe may be remotely illegal on realNEO, Ever!

Submitted by Norm Roulet on Sun, 03/28/2010 - 02:44.

There has been a great deal of anti-community if not illegal Troll activity on realNEO, since it's beginning. What Internet activity is "illegal" and what are the consequences are increasingly being defined by new terms in society and the courts, like cyber-sex crimes, cyber-harassment, cyber-terrorism, and cyber-stalking, as early cases of attacks over the Internet against individuals and society are working their ways up the legal systems in America, and around the world, to supreme levels.

Attacks on realNEO that are clearly intended to harm me and my family have accelerated in the past two years, as the exceptional value of realNEO and ICEarth have become clear to the world.

Over the past year, as I am deploying the ICEarth conceptual framework and Bigbang technologies we are developing here, the attacks against my family have pushed us to the point we are asking proper authorities to investigate.

Most of the attacks against my family - and any attack against me and my workproducts are attacks against the well being of my family - are clearly related to the success of realNEO, and now ICEarth.

Tim Russo's "It's On Bitches", "Blackheart Cleveland" and ongoing slip-fall cyber-terrorism are examples of such assaults on me, my family and my work that my family must now address with authorities.

As my local ICEarth team is revolutionizing open source value in the world, with ICEarth Linux and Bigbang technologies - all open source and "Co-Op" owned - my family is attacked more... more people try to use realNEO against my family.

I have a situation right now where one or many people are trying to entrap me as author of inflammatory content on realNEO, posted with fictitious accounts that I did not create. This is a time-bomb set weeks ago to go off yesterday. The explosion is suspended in time right now, before any impact may harm anyone, and I am contacting a lawyer and authorities to investigate, before these Trolls on realNEO blow my family to pieces...

Some say these attacks are a compliment to my success. All I say in response is these attacks have made my children physically ill. There are permanent consequences to bad business practices in a community.

In July of 2009, a "realNEO member" called Oengus - who since made his account "None"... - made inflammatory claims on realNEO that caused Cuyahoga County Treasurer Jim Rokakis to contact Roldo Bartimole, who contacted me asking me to contact Rokakis, which I did. Rokakis told me the claims made by Oengus on realNEO were illegal lies and Rokakis would take immediate legal action against ME if Oengus' claims were not removed. I was the target of a "None"-to-legal set-up, and my family was to suffer the consequences.

At that time, as now, I was not supported by a competent realNEO "organization" - active board and officers - to allow real-coop and/or realNEO to take responsibility for problems with realNEO, and make decisions as an entity. I shared details of the situation with an ad hoc group of active members - myself, Roldo and Susan Miller, Real Coop Treasurer - and we made the decision to remove the offending posting... and I was then attacked by the absentee realNEO "leader" Jeff Buster, for that, when he surfaced a week after the incident went down.

In agreeing to Rokakis that I would remove the Oengus posting - edit another member's posting, which is not our policy - I made Rokakis promise that he would contact the Attorney General or some other proper state or federal authority THE NEXT DAY to investigate Oengus and his claims against Rokakis, on realNEO, and to investigate any misuse of realNEO by anyone. I posted about the incident on realNEO here (it is now hidden - string is reproduced below) - everyone has been on public notice about that situation and the seriousness of apparent illegal activity on realNEO.

Oengus has fled the community, since... leaving a mile-wide trail of breadcrumbs behind.

An "Oengus" fled Cleveland.com December 13, 2009... here are his breadcrumbs there.

I now intend to determine what if any investigation Rokakis initiated regarding the Oengus incident, and the results. If the investigation has not begun, we shall determine why, and begin it this week.

And I intend to seek investigations into the activity of all others who are actively using realNEO to harm others, including those seeking to harm my family.

Real, good realNEO members have nothing to worry about, and should feel free to carry on legally as they like, as always.... better than always.

I do not recommend anyone do anything they believe may be remotely illegal on realNEO, ever. Illegal activity includes setting-up an account that is or is not authentic to you with the intent to do harm to realNEO or any members here. I will investigate and prosecute as appropriate.

Here is some of the evidence on realNEO related to the incident with Oengus and Rokakis - Real Coop now needs to take appropriate action.

Ther is more to it, the nail hit on the head.

Submitted by None on July 22, 2009 - 6:05pm.

This post was about my PC and it being hacked….

The other post ( that was censured) stated what another person had told me, and what they told me was true.

If what Norman say is true…then I will have to tell everyone who said it. Won’t I, have to reveal my sources?

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Oengus, I received a message from Rokakis about you

County Treasurer Rokakis emailed me and asked me to contact him about your posting on REALNEO. I called Rokakis and he made clear your claims are lies and he will take legal action if your claims are not removed from REALNEO. I told him I would remove the posting but wanted a complete investigation of what has been happening with REALNEO, including your claims against Rokakis. He assured me he will contact the Attorney General in the morning to determine who should investigate.

I have deleted your posting.

Here is the email I received from Rokakis.

I have also refered him to Jeff Buster, as a member of the REAL COOP Board.

We really need bylaws, and that is in the budget for our initiatives to the County.

Oengus, you've proved the need!

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Dear Norm,
 I just saw the following post at Real NEO:
It is outrageous, slander and I will take legal action is this is not removed, and not next week, not tomorrow, but now. 
Please call me on my cell at XXX-XXX-XXXX.
Somebody has to take responsibility for this bullshit--and I am told you are the person I need to contact.
Jim Rokakis

Disrupt IT

Cuyahoga County Elected Officials = Pigs at the Public Trough


 Norm, I am real concerned that a post can be removed just based on a threat from a politician. I have not been following all of this and have been quite busy out in the community.

What really upsets me that this public SERVANT will use the term "Bullshit". I think that same term can discribe most of the elected public servants in Cuyahoga County. I feel if this public Servant wants to abuse his power against RealNeo, he should make public, scan, and post on RealNeo his campaign contributions for the last three years running. I would be real interested to see if the Frangos's contributed to his funding? I wonder if Steven Pumper gave him any money?

Perhaps we should have some of our operatives start to follow these SERVANTS and see what we get for our tax money.

Some of our prior handywork from a few years back. See some of the players listed below.

This public servant is part of the same democratic party machine that has given you.

A) Frank Russo B) Jimmy Dimora C) Rosemary Vinci D)J. Kevin Kelley E) Kevin Payne F) Steven Pumper G)Robert White

Do not forget the corruption in the City of Cleveland Building and Housing Department doctoring violation notices to lower property values.

Why should whe take him at face value? We need sweeping changes in County government and it is time to evict the corrupt democracy that represents their own and their friends best interests.

Henry P. Senyak - People for Democracy in Ward 14

there may be more to this

 there may be more to this Henry, i think its worth a wait before judgement.

Ward 14 People for Democracy Supported!

Henry, I support that statement without a doubt! 

Being a victim of cyberstalking right now, this is on my mind

When Oengus posted a claim he knew Rokakis took bribes, I was contacted by Roldo who was outraged such a claim was posted without any proof. Roldo contacted Real Coop Member/Director Susan Miller, as well. I informed Roldo that REALNEO seemed to be the victim of cyberstalking right now, having to do with Blackheart Cleveland, and that I did not know who was responsible, or what realneo postings were real member postings, versus attempts by posers to stir up the real membership. I informed Roldo that I intended to contact state or federal authorities to determine if cyberstalking or such is at play here.

Roldo was concerned about the charges Oengus made against Rokakis and contacted him to make him aware of the posting - Rokakis sent me the email I posted asking me to contact him - I called him (first time we ever spoke) and told him we don't have clear policies for deciding which content should be deleted, but that our membership has been comprimised and there has been a pattern of harassing content surrounding REALNEO lately.

I told him I would delete the posting if he would contact the Attorney General in the morning to look at the claims and whether there are a series of REALNEO members and postings here just to cause other people personal harm. I don't consider that within the rights of any coop or community members.

I also told Rokakis I would need to post an explanation of this incident on REALNEO.

Why don't you contact Oengus and see if you can verify his story, as that could make the Times!.

Disrupt IT

unsubstantiated defamation


Please refer to the terms of use.

REAL.COOP reserves the right to select, edit and arrange submissions and to remove information from the REAL.COOP website at any time at its sole discretion.

I do not (and I speak for myself) wish to propagate unsubstantiated defamation of anyone, public or private. I may not like a politician's actions and I may find their character unpleasant, but I feel that publishing unsubstantiated libelous claims is rude and unnecessary. I support Norm's action.

Posters have many options open to them. Realneo does not need to be a repository for hatefulness and bad behavior in the civic space. Clearly Oengus was publishing "bullshit" as he does not even know how to spell the name of the person he accused. I believe that those involved with maintaining Realneo as an open space for civic dialogue have been tolerant to a fault. We have allowed the flame wars to remain because we acknowledge the innate negativity engendered by a repressed public who seems to get the short end of every tax-funded stick. But before Rokakis's email made it to Norm, I was considering suggesting that we remove this post by Oengus. His timing and Roldo's were quicker than mine.

I believe that it is always a good idea to count to ten before you click submit. Oh, yes and there are those among us who would appreciate a thorough proofreading and spell checking as well.

unsubstantiated defamation

 Henry, this is at the point that requires a through look at what is happening on this site regardless of the public servant involved. I have been concerned for a while now as to where Oengus was headed and then Russo was the icing on the cake.  There are other forums that they can use for whatever their end goals are.


PD Story concerns me with Double Dipping

To me Rokakis is no different than any other self serving politician in Cuyahoga County.

"Double Dipping"

Selfserving...when does it become a crime?

  Thanks Henry--All of the folks cited in the Plain Dealer article know that as long as the gate is open, the horse will get out...or what ever metaphor you want to employ to justify plain old greed.  Pianka's kid in college is a good excuse, and at least he still pays taxes in the City of Cleveland.  But, Lillian Greene's excuse sure takes the cake...from Marie Antoinette.  Paying out "overtime" has been another major open gate...but since that gate is closed for now...double dipping it is!

Roldo knows that I am no great fan of Rokakis.  In my book, he is only one among many bad politicians we have "representing" some one else's best interests, all the while pretending to represent US.  What galls me the most about Rokakis (and Cimperman) is that he plays the saint and for some cloaked financial reason the Plain Dealer, NPR, Scene magazine, New York Times etc..play along with the charade.

Roldo, you know the history behind council and appointments.  Why do you pretend that somehow Rokakis is above the same scrutiny applied to Dimora and Russo.  If Rokakis didn't have some obligations when he appointed Merle Gordon/Hoffman/Bruckman to Ward 15 and then endorsed Emily Lipovan, please let me know his rationale?  (It's not like everyone who lives here hasn't heard the story...).

We here in Sweenieville--slice-and-dice Ward 14 Santiago/Ward 12 Brancatelli (on the land bank board) live with the consequences, even if Rokakis wants to distance himself from his political appointments.  If Rokakis is so smart with our money, have him explain the benevolence behind his legacy, and why, if he is looking out for the little guy and gal--he choses to live far away from his original constituents in Rocky River...Sure, Rokakis is no Russo or Dimora--afterall, they don't live in the City of Cleveland, either.  Then again...they never started their careers pretending to care about the common folk in the city.  Please tell me how I am NOT being used....BTW, did Frangos get his PERS???  Afterall, Hudson is an expensive place to live...

Who is hacking?


Look at my blog it is innocuous.

I have no end game, I have no agenda other than addressing what I feel like when I feel like it!

If I am a problem then remove me…..censure me, delete me and even ban me from using the site.

Somebody is attempting to access remotely this computer...is that a felony? 

Oengus, I take you on your word

Oengus, I take you on your word for who you are and I take your postings to be sincere. And you seem to know your IT and be very smart - I've enjoyed your content. With better use of our technology at the coop level, so we all may better filter and authenticate our experiences here (and you know what I mean), I believe you fit nicely in our cooperative... assuming you are honest and sincere in your presence here.

I removed your posting and all our comments (there were like 6, including 2 from me) because Roldo and Rokakis expressed valid concerns - I didn't reflect or pass judgment on you or your postings, or consider blocking you in any way, and I told Rokakis I would disclose all the details of the situation in open on REALNEO, as I did, and I will seek an open investigation into the claims and other circumstances.

I also told Rokakis REALNEO is owned by a cooperative - not-for-profit - of the members, including you, and that he should speak to Jeff Buster about this situation. Unfortunately, Jeff is out of town on an extended and remote vacation and unavailable to technology.

Under the circumstances, I considered Roldo the best judge. Susan "seconded", and that seemed authority enough. It seemed in the best interest of everyone - if it is determined that the posting should go back up, I know plenty of people have copies.

All this is certainly within the terms of use, which I think are fair and applied fairly.

And I definitely am not hacking your computer - that is not what I do.

I apologize if you are being treated unfairly or are being wronged - we will clear that up. Keep a careful eye on what is happening around you.

Disrupt IT

who is hacking

 Who knows who is hacking or IF you are being hacked.  Another diversion?

Why don't you just remove yourself? Take your ramblings and videos to another site where it fits in better? There is a place for you....somewhere.




delightful ideas

you always have such delightful ideas, Orbit!

Rokakis contacting Realneo Admin is wrong


I have been away for the last 2 weeks w/o internet and unfortunately missed this Rokakis exchange. 
 Section 230 of the 1996 Communications Decency Act    provides that the admininistrator’s/owners of a web site (like Realneo.us or Craig’s List) are not responsible for alleged libel committed by one of the site’s users. 
Therefore, I disagree with Norm deleting/removing Oengus's comments – independent of whether or not I believe those comments were adequately supported or supportable –
I believe that Mr. Rokakis was wrong in contacting the site administrators with a request that the administrators remove content to which Mr. Rokakis (a public official in Cuyahoga County) objected because the email request from Mr. Rokakis to Mr. Roulet placed the administrators of Realneo in a position which could be perceived to be improperly/illegally influenced by the public official . 
Essentially, Mr. Rokakis wanted one of the Administrators of Realneo to do him a favor – Removing a comment on Realneo is a favor to Mr. Rokakis because Realneo Administration is not legally responsible or liable for the content on Realneo. 
Who will be the next Public Official who asks Admin for a favor?
Who is the next Public Official or Influential Person who places Realneo Admin in the untenable position of deciding to remove or censor content on Realneo?
Mr. Rokakis’s appropriate and legal remedy – of which, as a public official, he should be keenly aware – is to either ignore the web material to which he objected , contact the poster of the material and make a request for deletion/change/correction to the poster, respond himself to the material on Realneo, elsewhere on the web or in print, etc., or file a complaint against the individual poster in a court of competent jurisdiction. 
In turn, if a Complaint is filed, a Court may issue an order to Realneo to turn over the IP number – if Realneo has it - of the individual poster so service provider (tel co, cable co) can be identified and to allow a complaint to be served on the poster.
I believe:
1. Mr. Rokakis should issue the Realneo community an apology for contacting Admin with a personal request for content editing, and
 2. the thread of Oengus’ comment/posts should be restored to Realneo.
Realneo is not a newspaper. Realneo is not the New Yorker.   Realneo has no editors.   Nothing is removed from Realneo – except commercial spam. Realneo has no claim to be a glossy, erudite, classy, posh publication. Realneo has no claim to being an accurate or fair publication. At times, some may believe the lack of editors causes Realneo to appear to be a potentially crazy mess. This has deterred some from reading/using Realneo.
All Realneo has of any value is the integrity – which it’s REALNEO name suggests. 
I believe the involvement of Administrators in requests from public officials (or others) to edit comments about those public officials denigrates this integrity.



Jeff, I understand your concerns and wish you had been here when this went down - we should meet, as I asked Rokakis to contact the Attorney General as I believe he was being entrapped, as were we.

In any case, while some mice have been away the cats have been at play. Playtime is over.

In the Rokakis case the decision went through an informal but I think smart COOP board/director review process of Roldo, Susan and myself and the outcomes are well documented.

I think REAL COOP needs to decide what about the actions of the last two weeks should be investigated further. That is definitely a discussion I am having with many people now, and want to have with REAL COOP members who are interested in the future of the cooperative, as we have an important future.

Let's plan a REAL COOP meeting! You want to host this time?

Disrupt IT


 You have made excellent points.  I am among those that think that realneo is sometimes a crazy mess, but still appreciate the overall greatness of the site. 

This does point out, though, the need for administrators to have a clear understanding of responsibilities, and also understand the differences that you point out in not being a newspaper or periodical. Any newspaper worth is salt also would not cave to a public official (yeah, I know, dream on)




 Transparency would be nice, but apparently too much to ask for from our local representation. Intimidation seems to be the top down procedural policy...in NEO.


This site is a mess, but it has revealed many truths...it's not perfect...but as Jeff Buster notes above--it is REALNEO.  Norm--you are the de facto "face" of REALNEO...you have to trust that some of us are not out to get you, but also know that I believe the intimidation perpetrated against you and this site is REAL and it has taken a toll.  Please try to trust and listen to some of the content posted at REALNEO.  It's not all attack--there are many REAL cries for help and this site has given those people a voice.

I sent Connie Schultz an email about her column today...

I sent Connie Schultz an email about her column today... "Web site posters' anonymity an invitation to mischief: Connie Schultz" - the PD has similar problems....

I concluded my message to Connie, "I remain open, available and sincere in my initiatives, even when harmed by others."

I have no doubt most visitors to and members of realNEO are as open, available and sincere in their initiatives, even when harmed by others.

Disrupt IT