Business as Usual

Submitted by lmcshane on Tue, 09/22/2009 - 13:57.

Today's Sound of Ideas on WCPN discussed the outcome and costs of the corruption probe.  Roldo called in (and I called in and cried me a river)...More later.

The Costs of Corruption

Today, September 22, 2009, 9 hours ago<
The latest allegations from the federal corruption investigation--that the county auditor accepted $1.2 million in kickbacks and and his aide another $150,000--have alarmed many in the community, mostly for the apparent brazenness of the dealings. If this turns out to have been the standard operating procedure in some local elected offices, what is the ultimate credibility cost for local government? And what, exactly, should be the role of private sector organizations in restoring credibility in public institutions? Tuesday morning at 9, join host Dan Moulthrop for a conversation about the far-reaching effects of corruption.
Listen especially  to Tom's comments on the Ohio Ethics Commission and later I talk about my own issues with the Ohio Elections Commission...he says the "mess is in Columbus, too--mafia crime is hand-in-hand."  Listen to Sweeney dance around it...the whole program starts out with declaration that Cuyahoga County Treasurer is does that work Dan Mouthrop??
and Aaron's comment...the media in collusion with the deals...promoting the Opportunity Corridor...the elephant on the coffee table...the media is not doing it's job.
Bradley_Dept_of_army1.pdf418.73 KB
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Racketeering versus Good Business?

This is pervasive throughout America, but in Ohio (Illinois, too) seems to be a case study in how do we treat the disease--the cancer killing our communities.

Is capitalism inherently based on exploitation?  Today's show on WCPN just blew me away.  I think I can be fairly confident in saying that the panel recognizes, but will not acknowledge that in NEO--rigged political process, graft, corruption, shady real estate transactions and property shell games amount to racketeering on one side of town, but on the other side of town, the same game, amounts to what some like to call good business.




  I was not surprised to see that Brian Cummins did not show up, because I suspect he knew I would ask him about the mysterious demolitions that have taken place along commercial corridors to prime land deals set up by his predecessors, Lipovan, Gordon, Rokakis and others. There are two games in this town.  Contract steering and real estate.  While everyone focuses on Russo/Dimora and their buddy system, no one examines Rokakis/Frangos and the land bank.  The media is just slobbering over these so-called saints.  Brian Cummins needs to redeem himself, before he gets swallowed up by the CDC/SII/HUD schemes.  Cimperman is long gone.

CORRECTION: Brian Cummins contacted me via email and notes that he was cancelled from the program last night with some explanation of needing a "diverse" panel.  It would have been fair of WCPN to provide some explanation.  He also called in and his call was not picked up. 

Did he answer the question

Did he answer the question you would have asked him if he was not cancelled?  I would like the answer to that question also. 

Ward14 resident

The topic of the WCPN program was benign complicity...I have discussed this with Brian and  in most cases, he claims the demolitions were the result of overzealous, incompetent B&H department...sound familiar?

Rick Nagin would find himself in the same compromised position*  that Brian has been as a councilperson who inherits the agenda of the previous council person.  For the most part, Brian has unravelled a lot of that mess and has made amends for schemes that predated him.   The mystery demolitions have been documented here ad nauseum.  Google demos for developers or Denison Senior Housing...Brian well knows how I feel about that HUD scheme. 

(*possibly more so given his allegiance to Kucinich and the labor pressures that affect the Fulton Rd. bridge and ODOT wall contracts foisted upon us) 




But, you forget...I want

But, you forget...I want that darn ODOT wall.  LOL  But, I don't want to reinstate that argument here. 

I have read your posts about the Denison Senior Housing and they make a lot of sense.  I am an older person myself, and my husband is 4 years older than I am, and I have some of my own children who would like to see us in a senior housing apartment so we won't ask them for help.  My husband says when we leave our home to go to senior housing it will be out of Ohio.  Perhaps somewhere South where the weather is milder in the winter. 

I live North of the Fulton Rd. bridge, as do two of my children and their families, and we would like to know why the access road to the park was closed off and will not be reopened after the bridge is built?  Is this to keep the people who live here out of that area?  Or to make it difficult for people who live here to get to the park without going across the bridge?  That is a sore spot with me.  Why have a nice park and then cut off convenient access to half of the neighborhood?  What is that all about?

I support Kucinich, not on everything, but in general, and I am for the most part pro labor.  So you haven't talked me out of my support for Nagin yet.  But, I admire your effort.  So far none of the reasons you have given me are compelling me to vote for the other guy. 



I too have tired of the circles of arguments. Last week I took 77 to Akron & back where the walls are built along the freeway, a nice looking combo of brick and glass with some designs. It is short sections of walls that will bring relief to the residents closet to the freeway. Do I like the walls in general? No, but I don't think freeway should be built smack through a city either. 

About the park entrance: this was closed off to the neighborhood allegedly because the  bridge over the drive was bad. We all know that it was because of the neighborhood. The portion of the zoo under that bridge remained open. The entrance now is accessible only from the more "stable" neighborhood, and when we kick our heels up, and we will, demanding that the entrance at Fulton and Denison be re-opened, let's see what excuses they come up with when the new bridge is opened.


People used that as a short

People used that as a short cut to get to Ridge, not to access the park, they just drove through it. Then also that road was very much like a street in San Francisco, flying around a hairpin turn of red brick on an incline.

If they reopen it, then it become a road again to short cut to Ridge Park…..

If you are going to the park and you are in a car then is crossing the bridge to far? If you are not in a car, you can still use the road it is still access to the park, just not vehicular access or a short cut to ridge road.  

I think that the stretch of 71 between Futon and Pearl could get poured in place walls. I would be concerned about getting the latest version of sound barriers they are not so easy to look at. 

I'd like to see the same width sidewalk on the highway bridges as on the new Fulton bridge, I see they are 15 FT and then maybe the same side rails as on the new bridge as well.   Hell... I would like to see all the bridges match the new Fulton bridge.   I think the park needs to come up the hill and then 41st needs to be made a two-way street.  The triangle at 41st and Fulton should get the BP and a retro one that looks like it was built in 1930!  

The cuyahoga national forest took land by legally declaring first rights to it, with the exception of generational inheritance. You stay as long as you like, you can give it to your children and even they can give it to their children…but if you sell it; then it gets sold to the park and becomes part of the park.  

Business or commerce gets incentives to relocate into adjacent area, better locations with better facilities.

That's part ODOT part metro parks and then part city. That’s joint venture, planning.

The window comes when you get a chance to meet with ODOT, then you could present to them and then copy the city and the metro parks…hey how about this idea? Hopefully you get them all talking about it.

There is a way to create and industrial corridor in that area, that connects the existing industrial area south of Denison with the area to the west. That then becomes Brooklyn and regional. The Denison ramp is poorly configured and a waste of land as it is.



the park

This entrance was used as entrance to access the park to use the freaking park. It is statements like yours that got it closed off. I guess only poor people drive through it, not use it, by your calculations.




Oengus, to get to Brookside

Oengus, to get to Brookside Park without the access road open on Fulton and Denison it is more than a matter of just crossing over the bridge because there is no access to that park unless you drive to Ridge Road and enter the park from there.  It is not a matter of just crossing over the bridge and entering the park.  You can enter the upper level of the park (can't remember the name of it) off of Fulton Parkway and walk down the stairs to Brookside Park but why not open the access road so people can get to the park from the North side of the bridge?  Saying that people will use it to get to Ridge Road is not a valid reason to keep the access closed off to all traffic.  I remember the hairpin-like turn but can't that be fixed?   If you are worried about cars speeding though the park area why not lower the speed limit in that area and hand out some speeding tickets.  That should deter those who are using it just as a short cut to Ridge, and it could get the City some money too, because you know there will be those who will think the speed limit is not meant for them.  There are other means to stop people from using that as a shortcut besides closing the entrance off to everyone.  I would like to know the real reason why that access road will not be reopened.  Opening it to foot traffic may be an acceptable compromise but I think I would rather have it open for drivers so people can bring their kids and their bikes and their picnic baskets and their sports equipment and enjoy the park.  Why close off a whole neighborhood from a neighborhood park?  It just isn't right. 

dwebb, I will be with you

dwebb, I will be with you when you kick your heels up.  I am tired of having our area treated like a step child.  I have listened to the excuses for way too many years.  Where do we start to make our demand to open the Fulton and Denison entrance?  Who makes these decisions? 

Parks for all/access for all

Ward14, I will be getting back to you on this.



kicking your heels up? 

kicking your heels up?  that expression means the opposite of the way your using it. 

its the metroparks?  maybe the city?  maybe both. 


alternative access:




The end of Denmark Ave….but there are tracks two sets, they could have signal crossings. Then the those people may not want that traffic. But it would make it less likely to be short cut because it would wind through a few streets before you got there.


Those homes could have offers made on them by the park system, just like the national forest did. If they sell it then it would be to the park. Then the park is right up to Dennison, not just an entrance its right there.   That again is about first right to buy and then if people want to keep it only if it's family and generational.   

Look at the tracks through the park, they are redundant that’s because they are owned by different companies. One track could be shared were they run parallel, that is just two switches. The park then only has one set of tracks going through it.  

Talk to Dennis about the tracks, its a heated depate in washington, the rail system and it's falts.  The reduncay in some tracks removed we would have lots of spaces and in some cases they could become parks.    

The agenda should be a bigger park connected to the river and bringing it up the hill.

Kicking my heels up is a

Kicking my heels up is a phrase I have not heard before so I don't know the meaning of it other than how it was used in the post.  I seemed to denote a willingness to fight for access to the park instead of sitting back and saying nothing. 

I am sure there is a solution to the problem and I find it hard to believe that the engineers could not build a road that goes down and up a hill if they wanted to do it, or should I say if they were paid to do it. 

It might be nice to have the park come right up to Denison, but I wouldn't want to take anyone's home for it unless they really wanted to sell. 

But, all this really says more about the leadership in this area than anything else. 

I looked up the meaning of

I looked up the meaning of kicking up ones heels.

kick up (one's) heels Informal
To cast off one's inhibitions and have a good time.
Now that my memory has been refreshed I remember hearing this phrase in the past when I was a child.  I haven't heard it in years and forgot the meaning of it. 


Are you sure that it is not

Are you sure that it is not that you come from a place were fighting is sometimes celebrated? Some people like to fight don’t they? Try not to get caught up in the fight, its not the fight you should be after. It’s like the place you can go, but not all the time. Not being afraid to fight is not the same as coming out of the gate looking for a fight.

I lived over there…I know how it is.

It can change if good people speak up, I do well because I assume the role of others first, I look to figure out their perspective from there position first. How can you align your concern with what is the realm of their authority, how can it make all of us benefit as well?

The value of increasing green space is not obvious to many and certainly not a chance to make money.  In the end it cost money to keep it up...we all pay to support the metroparks and all pay for the highway.

But it adds real value to people that live around it, adding park, increasing the size of the park is real value.

There is real possibilities for the area were the Dennison ramp is, its a ridiculously long ramp and occupies way more land then needed. Then it only has access to and from the south, that open up conversation about real changes that could quite traffic and also build in new industry as well as increase green space…it is the path of big creek.

ODOT talked about getting rid of the bows at Fulton and Pearl on 71.…look at the huge bow that exist on 71 through the park, that has a lot to do with the Denison ramp. The area has too much access to the highway…the highway is way to intruding on the land.

Two disconnected industrial areas both with poor interstate access, then also two metro parks also disconnected, they form a informal discontinues series of naturalized areas between them. The common threads are big creek, then the interstate and also the rail. Memphis has a fairly large transportation center it has bad access to the interstate and no access to nearly adjacent rail lines.


How long ago did you move

How long ago did you move from the Clark Fulton area? 

I have no hidden agenda.  I am a long time resident of the area.  My only interest in the area is that of a resident.  And I strongly believe that it is not right to cut off an entire neighborhood from a Metropark.  I don't think that asking questions about who made the decisions not to reopen the access road after the bridge was repaired is fighting.  I asked who made the decision and why it was made.  I don't agree with the decision to deny an access road to the residents that live on the North side of the bridge.  But, enough about me. Tell me something about your interest in this discussion. 


What did ODOT want to do with the bows?  Where would a resident find this information?  One of the good things about this area is the easy access to the highway.  I hope the plan is not to take that away. I do have to agree with you that the highway has intruded on the land, especially for those of us that have homes adjacent to the highway and endure the noise.  I was for the noise barrier walls and I got plenty of disagreement about that topic  I would think that we all want what would benefit us and you are right that it would be beneficial to look at the persepective of those who have the authority to do something.  But, on the other hand, the residents get tired of just being used so others can make money off of them.  Some of us still live here and are directly impacted by the decisions made by others in position of power. 


No auto access off Fulton/Denison period

  There will be no auto access off Fulton Denison to Metroparks Brookside Park.  Period.  No discussion--it has been decided. There will be a wide bikeway--wide enough to accomodate emergency vehicles.

With vehicular access it was five-way intersection.  I think that the lack of vehicular access for Brookyn Centre residents sucks big time, but I will take the bike/pedestrian access over no access.

Oh sure, we won't be able to attend their old-fashioned summer baseball games as easily as the anointed folks on the other side...Kelley's Old Brooklyn gang... but we can still sure-as-hell beat their asses at the game.

Who made the

Who made the decision? 

What about lack of access for the residents of Ward 14?  Were the needs of the people in this community considered?  And what was the rationale for the decision? 

At least there will be access for bikes and pedestrians.  That is better than having it closed off completely.  I can live with that but I think it was poor planning to cut off access by vehicles to an entire neighborhood and force people to drive across a bridge to get to a park that they could have easily accessed without that additional driving.  Makes no sense to me, especially in this age of sustainability.  Where were the 'green' voices when this was being planned?

Will there at least be parking space on top of the bikeway/walkway so people can park their cars and bike/walk down to the park?  Did we at least get that little perk?  Or were the residents who live on the other side of the bridge not even considered when these plans were made?  

Fulton Bridge

What shapes my understanding of this project? I worked in planning for the Cleveland Metroparks in the nineties and at NOACA and I also live here.

A lot of Brooklyn Centre folks had the anguish of going through the so-called public meetings to decide the fate of the Fulton Rd. bridge.  (BTW, Congressman Kucinich and his staff did nothing to help on behalf of the adjacent bridge residents).  I caught the tail-end of those meetings, because of my participation in the effort to save Wirth House/Art House.

At the same time, that the Fulton Rd. bridge was scheduled to come down and to impact a number of Brooklyn Centre residents, the Art House board under Rokakis appointee Merle Gordon/Emily Lipovan buddy Sheryl Hoffman and shadow CDC player Abe Bruckman, were attempting to have the tax-funded Art House/Wirth House torn down with more tax funds (residents successfully fought it down).  All of these assaults take their toll.

Also, there is a long and complicated history behind how the City of Cleveland neglects their maintenance issues, compounded by the Cuyahoga County Engineers office and the State of Ohio compounded by long-range land-use plans for commercial corridors as Oengus hints at in his cryptic posts (can I get a decoder?). 

I now suspect that clearing key parcels on Denison and Pearl were/are part of a larger plan to develop commercial properties along those routes as the state funding for repairs and large contracts for those repairs go into effect.  Throw in the federal dollars, HUD monies, and you only sweeten the pot for developers like NRP to come in and make a killing on our "poverty" factor described in terms of seniors, income and minority populations.

The Fulton Bridge is a case study in how greed works.  There was the awarding of the demolition, the bridge contract, the roads, the bike one wanted to stop that money train, by just fixing a perfectly sound bridge. 

Anytime you deal with a bridge you affect land patterns and demographics.  The players understand these dynamics.  Just look at how the demolition of the Clark Pershing Bridge destroyed Cleveland and left us a city divided, by design. 

So, I suppose I should be grateful that at least we will still have a bridge. 

BTW--How do I know that there is no auto access?  Because, I stop by and talk to the construction workers.




My questiion was who made

My questiion was who made the decision not to have auto acess to Brookside Park from the north side of the bridge?  My next question would be what was the rationale for that decision? 

I just talked to my sister who lives on Denison around W. 52nd and she had no idea that the access road to Brookside Park would not be reopened after the bridge construction was completed.  I wonder how many people in this community are not aware of that plan?  She told me that she thinks there needs to be an access road on Denison to get to the park.  And she said this before I said anything about how I felt about it.  I am sure there are a lot more people who would be of the same persuasion if they only knew about it. 

And I think it stinks that Congressman Kucinich did not address the issue and help the residents adjacent to the bridge.  It is not like him not to respond to a letter or an email about an issue.  I know that he has answered all the emails I have ever sent to him about any issue.  Are you sure he didn't respond, or was his response just not the response that you were hoping to get?  There is a difference you know.  I am disappointed too when things don't go the way I would like them to go, but I appreciate a response from my representatives even when they are of a different opinion. 

the park, the bridge and us

BTW, the zoo has taken over park of what used to be the road that went through, so when access is restored from Fulton and Denison for cars, we can drive down but the road ends into a parking lot. People can park and go into the park just as they do now from Ridge Road. There will no longer be  a through street, so people who worry about us "cutting through" no longer have that as a reason to deny access. I believe that the hairpin is also no longer an issue. Traffic engineers can surely put in the same lights that other communities use for multiple intersections.  So that leaves what?



ward14 resident

 maybe this will shed some light. People should not just swallow what the "authorities" tell them, be it the metroparks systems, or the Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency .

dwebb, Thanks for the

dwebb, Thanks for the link.  I find it difficult to believe that engineers who can build bridges and roads and highways can't find a way to build a road down a hill so an entire neighborhood can have access to a park that lies within their neighborhood.  The Plain Press article stated that their might be alternatives.  Do you know if any alternatives have been suggested? 

It's not one person Ward14

It's not one person Ward14, but engineers will tell you that a five way intersection is a no-no...the new/old solution to five/six/seven way interesections are the roundabout that everyone loves so much at Steelyard/West 14th St.  

"It is beginning to look like the old bridge," she said.

That was the intention of the $46.4 million project, said the Ohio Department of Transportation. ODOT is the project manager, at the request of Cuyahoga County, which maintains the city-owned bridge.  

Kucininich's staff ran a rigged survey to poll residents on the needs/wants for the bridge. This is an old trick...I don't need to get into here.


the park, the bridge, Kucinch

 I can't even begin to figure out how a US Congressman is held responsible for a local bridge issue.  Please state your facts about a rigged survey.

The excuse for the 5 way intersection as a reason not to open the park just doesn't fly. It wasn't a major issue before and we have a traffic division that can figure out traffic lights for the intersection. After all, if we can be given a circle to drive in, and be told that it is common in Europe so get over it, I am sure that we can deal with this.  

to dream..

 the impossible dream (statement of facts).

5 way intersections are

5 way intersections are uncommon but they do still exist.  Who are the people who do not want to open access to Brookside Park on Denison?  And what is the real reason?  It seems like the 5 way intersection worked fine when the road was open to traffic.  There was a traffic light that controlled the traffic.  Or is this just an another old trick being used like the one you accuse others of using?  You know the one where the group that has some kind of ulterior reason that is unacceptable to publicize finds another acceptable reason to give to the public.





Good luck

  You all can fight the bridge war for me--I have other more pressing concerns than whether I can drive down to Brookside Park.   Like I said--it sucks.

Too bad you weren't around when the dust was flying.  No use crying over spillt milk, right?

I was around.  Remember we

I was around.  Remember we were told that the bridge needed to be demolished and a new one built.  I have no authority to make these decisions.  They are made by those with authority.  The ones we elect to office.  So, in that respect we all share the blame for any decisions they make that are not good for the community. 

I think they, the people in authority, like to keep us fighting against each other.  It just makes it easier form them to do whatever they want without any disruption from the residents.  I also have better things to do than stick up for the rights of a disenfranchised community.  We are all busy with our lives and that is one of the reasons that our needs get overlooked...don't you think they know that people do not have the time or energy to fight for their rights?  And yet we fall into the same trap, over and over again.  I know I am guilty of trusting our elected representatives to work for our best interests.  What a joke that was...the joke is on all of us. 

I do not matter...


I do not matter…

The city presents a sustainability agenda. Within its contents it call for formation of contiguous green spaces.

You as a resident would like access to the park and the cities agenda is to seek larger contiguous green spaces.

Then you have very high probability that your next representative on city council also enjoys green and is an advocate of greening to the point were the Big Creek enters the Cuyahoga.

It is not as if I am talking or communicating around you…but more that I am presenting concepts as best I can to a larger audience.

ODOT is focusing on us they have access to federal dollars…it’s all about being synergistic.

Looking from the satellite shows the use of the land, the land you cannot see on your daily trek.

There are people that have lists of all the industry south of Denison, that know what is there and what they are doing. Studying that fragment of an industrial whole is relative to processes and production…that is always related to logistics. The rail car directly loaded or unloaded, the semi having direct access to the interstate. It is about logical alignments.

ODOT will be addressing the interstate, in the urban core and not at that location…to me that is a mistake.

I would like to point something out, having three access points to the interstate is not good for your area, it makes it noisy and dirty. I have to laugh when you say reduce our access, the eastside has no freeways. I got 480 and it takes 10-15 minutes to get to it. Then those access points are…not great either.

People that take the marginal to get from Fulton to Pearl, man heaven forbid you had to drive a block further. Seriously think about it.

I can imagine a trail from that area that leads all the way to Memphis, actually to Brookpark. I can see a path for an industrial road that that links the fragmented industrial areas with rail and the interstate. I know I walked it on foot.

Not having access to the highway means people stick around and shop closer in, if you have a well developed industrial area then some can work within the area they live.  

At one time they planned a ramp at 65th and Lorain…should people complain and say they think we are second class they never built our ramp? They are forced to 85th and Lorain or 25th and Pearl? One point of access set away from the residential area, is ideal.

How about no access at Pearl or Fulton and a trench with pored concrete walls and arched bridges with 15 ft wide sidewalks….I can almost hear birds chirping. A trenched lined with sycamores on either sides.

One consolidated point of access south of Denison and that linked into a industrial road that connects to 73rd/Ridge Road.

That would be about what a billion dollar project? Perhaps PNC should loan ODOT the capital? Maybe it should be paid as restitution for the coercion and behind the dealing that lead us to loose a national bank?

Oh, but the "I" does

Oh, but the "I" does matter.  It matters if someone has a stake in the decisions that are being made.  It really does matter if a decision will have an impact on you or not and what that impact is.  It gives us a perspective as to why you think the way you do and why you think some plans will work better than others.  It actually matters a great deal.

No freeway access at Pearl

No freeway access at Pearl and Fulton sounds great to me.  I don't drive the freeway anymore so access to it is not a concern for me personally.  I would love the sycamore trees and the chirpping birds too.  No argument for me about that idea.  But I think we are just dreaming.

Now, back to reality.  It is not so much the lack of access to the park as it is the reason for the decision.  It seems the only reason that is needed for a decision is how much money will I get in my pocket if I agree.  The needs of the community is probably the last thing to be considered.  Why should anyone care what the people that live in one of the city's low income areas need?  I bet those  in power would like to see all low income residents leave the area so it can be turned into a money making industrial area.  But, we have to live somewhere and this is one of the last areas that have somewhat affordable housing available.  I don't think too many residents will be leaving the area anytime soon.





Thank you.

Thank you.








Auto wrecking and hazardous waste storage

  Where do we relocate these noxious industries Oengus?  Plans have some of the Big Creek Valley you describe transformed to an urban outfitters camp with special accommodations to mountain bikes.  The whole valley has been desecrated with dumping for over 100 years.  Take any valley, any where in America, and you will find dumping.  I have yet to see a coordinated vision for the whole Big Creek corridor--one that does take freeway access points into consideration.  Can you show me one?

I would also like to know, if as you predict, Oengus--similar bridges are planned in Ohio.  Here's a recent article on the project and Ohio-based contractor Kokosing. (latest re-opening of the bridge has been delayed until May 2010).

Ward 14 --you are right.  The politicians just want to keep us fighting amongst ourselves until they can get their dirty work done with.

Maybe we can find a way to

Maybe we can find a way to give everybody enough to keep this area functioning.  That would be good.  I am not sure about regionalism though.  I guess I just don't trust the powers that be to care about those of us who have missed the financial boat.  I am sure a nice compromise could be planned for this area if the needs of everyone are considered before the plan if finalized.  It is possible.  Maybe get rid of the greed factor and it would work.

Now, I have a question.  But please dbra don't respond, it is not directed to you.

I noticed that the old Fulton Road Bridge was 1,630 feet long but the new one is only 1,583 feet long.  Does anyone know how that was accomplished?






It was longer according to cleveland Memory archives

This is where I got the 1,630 figure.  It must have not been accurate.  That makes more sense.  Just goes to show you can't believe everything in print. 

Oengus, you are a visionary.  It would be nice to see industry, transportation, nature, and people find a way to live together in the same community. 

I have always thought that living in an area that does not have industry, such a Bay Village, would be ideal.  I am not a big fan of pollution I always wanted to move out of the city.  I don't think any of us like to live near pollution.  But, living in a city means living with pollution.  I don't know how we can have industry without also having pollution.  Transportation makes pollution also, although it is lessing with the newer cars.  Look at all the complaints since Mittal Steel reopened.  It gave some people their jobs back but it also adds to the pollution of the environment.  Solve one problem and create another. 

You seem to have a better understanding of how the puzzle pieces go together than I do.  I admire your vision.






Mystery demo 2317 or 2319 Willowdale??

Another mystery demo of a hardly condemnable property in Brooklyn Centre--where's the property record at the auditor's site and who paid for the demolition???

View Larger Map

If this keeps up the ones

If this keeps up the ones that remain here will be living in a rural area surrounded by industry and freeways.  If you can hang on the area just might turn into something you like, lots of green and open spaces.  Please don't take this the wrong way...I am just being facetious...sort of anyway...because there is always some truth to the joking.  I really think this is sad, whenever someone loses a home.  My son is currently in foreclosure and trying to work with ESOP to save his home.  If he is unsuccessful he will be homeless soon...him, his two boys, one who is disabled, his mate who has a muscle disorder.   I know there are more stories like this one in this area. 

sad situation

That is a sad situation, W14R. I hope that ESOP is able to help him. I am not in favor of the widespread demolition that is going on in this town. We used to have rehabs and homes available to people, even with bad credit. We have swung the other way, and worse off for doing that.

Thanks dwebb.  It is a bad

Thanks dwebb.  It is a bad situation for so many when inexpensive housing is demolished only to be replaced by more expensive housing that many can't afford.   Even working people are having problems keeping up with home payments and utilities and all the other expenses of living. 

I think we need to keep the affordable housing, just fix them up and let people live in them.  That is what makes sense to me, not tearing them down to build housing that only a few can afford.  Either that or everyone needs to get a raise, or the cost of utilities have to go down, or the cost of food or medication, or health care.  Too much going up with income staying the same or people losing all income through job loss.  What a sad time it is for so many these days.  It seems like we are going backwards as a society, instead of advancing. 

Thanks for your concern. 

rehabbing housing

 We in the neighborhoods were told that it was too expensive to rehab houses and then put them into the lease purchase program at an affordable rate. The truth is that the housing rehab groups were taken over by the development corporations and the funders wanted to change the face of the neighborhoods. Now the development corporations are going down the tubes, new construction is down, and the money is not there for new development. The pendulum is about to swing the other way, and these houses that are vacant need to be boarded up for safety and do not demolish them. The CIty needs to reduce its' workforce and then use Building and Housing Department wisely to evaluate these houses for rehab, and get the damn money that is available in other cities into Cleveland and make affordable rehabbed houses available again. Change the focus, get rid of the corruption in the departments, and change the game plan and save our city.

Believe it or not, these

Believe it or not, these are the same sad deplorable situations that residents have been dealing with for years in Tremont - and the kicker is that the developers have a direct link right into TWDC.  Now that the business is down on the construction end, it looks like TWDC is looking to become a broker for liquor license.  We only have 27 plus D Class Liquor License in Tremont and "Sammy Says" we need some more.


  We will all live on the happy plantation--farming for the rich folks out in the burbs...can't you REIMAGINE it with me???!

I just read this thread and

I just read this thread and thought I would add what I know conerning some of the questions brought up in it.

The brick street winding down to Brookside Park from Denison

I attended the pblic meetings and this is what we were told. It is not the airpin turn but the GRADE of thehill that makes it impossible to reopen.  To re configure it too much land is needed.  The railroad tracks impede thereconfiguration.  As for the street remaining after the bridge is finished. NO way! It will be dismantled after the construction vehicles no longer need it. Anyone else have aquastion here unsafe but safe for construction?  Residents fought for the pike-pedestrian access we weren't even going to get that but wveryone continued to ask for it.

The length of the bridge

ward14resient is correct the original ridge was longer.  The Curve was in the original bridge because when it was originally built the residents east of the brige were taken in considertion. When the new roge ws built and their ladn was needed, it was taken. In the new bridge, the curve was taken out and other corrections made when new bridge was designed.

The besautiful design of the new bidge

Thank the residents and Metroparks for standing firm on the need for the new bridge to look like the old one. This was not the original plans.


Denison exeit on I-71.

Loook at local history Mayor Coyne of Brooklyn and west side activists Helen Smith And professor Tom Campbell and others marched on Columbus to stop the ODOT plan to connect I-90 and I-480 which would have taken more of the wst side of Cleveland and also Brooklyn to connect Marma to the interstates more than they are now.

No easy access to freeways on the east side

Look at the E. 55 exit off I-490.

I love this quote:

Albert Porter, saidif anyone thinks a bunch of Gray haired ladies in tennis shoes are going to beast me they have another thing coming.  Well, they did. Shaker Lakes was saved and the carring of the landscape by interstates were stopped. 40 years later, the east side area along the tracks has been successfully demoished so that the new incarnation Opportunity Corridor can now try to accomplish what wasn't accomplished years ago.

Just a bit of what I know from having known many of the people involved in these events and my attendance at public meetings over the years.




thanks, Gloria

Thanks for the details of one that was there as it was happening. I know that when the access to Brookside was shut off from Denison, it was to be a temporary thing due to the condition of the overhead bridge, then became permanent, but the powers that be at the time did concede that it was possible to work on the grading and reopen it. I was under the bridge a month ago (love those arches and thank you all) checking out the construction and equipment. I watched trucks loaded with stuff go down the old access road easily. Slowly, but without difficulty.  Accepting what we are told without questioning it is what got us where we are today.

Hello Gloria!

 Top of the season to you and yours. 

That's REalneo - stream of consciousness.

best, jeffb




Gray-haired ladies

  Got to watch out for them...Can't lock down all the comments on this site, Oengus...too bad!

it has got to be a technical problem

right, Oengus? You are not posting. 

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