A proper place in the community

Submitted by Glowbawl on Sun, 03/29/2009 - 22:17.

 Please read...it is a request for everyone to try and make sure there is a respectful comfort zone for all of the people in the community. Much of the ragtag cut'em up search them out diatribe that gets posted to this site has a very real destructive counterside. Yeah, I know I said this before, but it's gotten much worse and more spiteful. Now it may not effect you directly or immediately but it does often become a dig into somebody else. Somewhere down the road we all have interactive connections and old frayed ends diminish everyone's ability to move ahead. As you folks bash heads, investigate your neighbors and gossip about cancers and corruption you obviously know you are going to be making mistakes, push folks around unnecessarily and mislead others. The one that really gets me is folks here who toot their horn over others grief, who are not party to the conversation. That's not being very fair or responsible, it's just boils down to gossiping about someone else's business.


There is a great desire amongst many of you to be the "new community investigative force" to fill the long empty potentially positive job position in the community that in someway most of us truly need. But for the most part, you are not going to qualify, because you've got biases and greviances that you are not willing to overcome or recognize when dealing with matters at hand. There's been quite a few witchhunts lately and I'm surprised some haven't started sharpening the hayforks. I can picture a new diy workshop on how to properly make torches and bonfires. There is a heck of alot of talk about putting your foot in someones backside, but very little talk about people talking about putting their foot forward on community work or even marching in a proper protest action. 

I was speaking with someone who is stuck at the center of alot of this hoopla and his comment to me was quite simplistic and really summed it up..."all of it's really hard to take". This was the person that folks in the community should be rallying around, instead they are bent on making him feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. What is it going to take for folks to really laydown a rant about community and fairness that everyone can believe in and have a part of? Currrently all you got going is a list of bad people and bad things that happen to bother you. It's like a bully picking his nose. All it would take is for one out of many of such rants to grow into a knock down drag out fight, or for someone to retaliate either on the person being written about or the writer themselves. The internet is not so hands free that that kind of misfortune can't happen. I know there's probably more than a couple readers who will get to this point in reading with the attitude of.."yep, let's get it on". Unfortunately I fear it would be all too easy to prove my point, but I do hope that folks can pull back and take a breather. It would be nice to end it here and say, don't hurt anybody...but I know some will find a reason to argue on this.


( categories: )


Who is being treated unfairly?  Are social media sites like REALNEO inherently bad for our community?  Is it better to remain neutral and silent?

Which way is unfair?

 I came to RealNeo because a number of people suggested I post my community doings on the site. But posting here for me is actually problematic. Things of interest pop up here regularly but often they are bundled up with simple and elementary sliming, and sprinkled with incredulous notions, innuendos and utter gibberish. On a whole issues tend to become shallow and misleading, although, and problematically so, with good intentions. Unfortunately misguided and misleading are clearly not things I wish to be spending my time writing posts to. Examples...

All Real Case and UCI Stakeholders need to step up
Submitted by Norm Roulet on March 29, 2009 - 9:46am.

In my opinion, the problems with all things University Circle and within miles of that toxic zone are largely now the result of poor strategy, planning and leadership at the Cleveland Foundation, the Gund Foundation, and University Circle, all acting for a few large industrialists who control those institutions. Fire all them, and problems may be solved. As long as you all coddle Richards, Ronayne, and Abbott, their bosses will keep exploiting us and all our public funds for their personal community redevelopment...

Watch for more bullshit like OneCleveland CWRU Network subsidy, the Green COOP Launderette, the Kious Deconstruction Company, Reichtell Farms, and federally subsidized solar on Case rooftops in the coming months, from these uninventive hacks.


and then also...
What do?
Submitted by lmcshane on March 19, 2009 - 7:26pm. 

  Jimmy Dimora, Frank Russo, Patrick O'Malley, Kevin Kelley, Bill Mason, Tim Hagan, Deborah Sutherland, Jim Rokakis, Merle Gordon, Abe Bruckman, Sheryl Hoffman, Emily Lipovan, Joe Cimperman, Joe Santiago, Martin Sweeney, Anthony Brancatelli have in common...?

I see a lot of it as just being very angry rant which nowadays happens alot. Perhaps we all in many ways, should be oozing in anger...but were does that go? I was reacting specifically to the group venting that comes about here on this blog in very petty ways and is not likely to lead anywhere or become positive. Lists of people and cheap shots about others in the name of "communityness" sometimes get to the point of seeming to be more like cheerleading. The actual need to use somebodies name in a context that could make them look bad (socially) and certainly in a context where they aren't gonna be able to defend themselves is wrong. Although, on Realneo it does tend to add a sense of excessive bravado and pride to the person posting (which is worse). A lot of it has been "sorta targeting" class warfare, but not very accurately. I get a picture of something out of Rocky, or "Joe the Plumber" kinda anger. Anger that is being directed as antagonism, meanspirited, unnecessary. I can also see it as indignation but the type that starts fights not pushes forth people movements. An annoying version of populism that's fun but that's just before it's gonna get mean. Much of it like Imcshane's quip needs "the fill in the blank suggested 'low blow' implied" or 'call and response mode' of namecalling by another member of Realneo... surely a nice bit of necessary comeraderery.

Oh yeah the answer for lmcshane's 'the what do'?...

They would sell
Submitted by dbra on March 20, 2009 - 7:28am.
their soul for a buck?

None of this kinda of gunning for others is going to lead a large group of different people within a social sphere anywhere but into a for/against diatribe of polemetrics taking people nowhere.


model the behavior

"a number of people suggested I post my community doings on the site"

May I suggest that you post your community doings on the site and ignore other's opinions then? This site is not all one thing, one diatribe, one opinion. There is plenty of healthy (and unhealthy debate). Many of those who disagree choose not to engage, they just click away to another topic or website. Consider it food for thought and know that you are free to pick and choose in an a la carte manner. If is is a potluck to which I am invited, being vegetarian, I would be most likely to not be the one with hot dogs in hand on arrival. Just breathe deep and post your good stuff. Maybe someone will follow your lead. Keep a good supply of salt on hand for those posts and comments that are rife with hyperbole.

Many solutions have been suggested here over the past several years. We do throw out some good ideas and as Sudhir has pointed out, some of them have been co-opted by professionals. OK. Like Naomi Klein said in her address to Bioneers this past year, "Obama is a centrist, so we have to move the center." Disaster Capitalists will grab "ideas that are laying around". Much of what is here, over all is a smorgasbord of good ideas for them to choose from. There's a healthy dose of criticism, too. All part of the mix. There you have it - a picture of realANYWHERE - a collection of people with differing world views.

Please let us know what you'd like to move and where you'd like to move it.

'Those Who Make Tomorrow'

 Posting here in the future would help and might be possible, but is problematic not because of people's opinion or viewpoint, that I can focus to work with, but it's the positioning people take on and step up into and the amount of bravado they inject toward the conflicts around us that I find untenable and negative. It doesn't lead to much understanding or respectful interaction just a drumroll, face-down and then you start over again with the next conflict. Being as adversarial as some are here it is unlikely they will get to the point of discussing much of anything with the wider sphere of people around us. There is a pretty complete negation of the other's point of view and quick agreement of toward overall guilt. Not to mention a negation of the notion of whose authority should actually predominate these actions.

Understand that I'm right up there like the rest of you with my fill of crap that I see damaging our community. Many of the people that folks believe I'm being supportive of are actually people I've often butted heads with. But I still need to talk to them and I prefer to keep it that way. Because otherwise I'd be even more shut out and further from the goals being pursued.

I do see the efforts of the site as a focus on "Those Who Make Tomorrow". But the outlay of efforts and manner of discourse for me is a negative. At some point you gotta hope you can re-relate with many of those you go up against. It can happen between people in understandable successive gains and also by concession or more often... when no one is willing to have concern for all involved....change doesn't really happen at all. I firmly believe if you are going to spend the effort to change things why let yourself get caught in this predominate muddle, cause given the perpetual shifting and changing of people's minds and ways. Then there's those who need also to be convinced; allies, whistleblowers, other deciding entities...these things bridge gaps and one needs to be aware of how they will take your participatory stance.

NeoReal has definitely invested in a firm base of people, many of whom are really good. Roldo and other activist minded folks are here deservably need a good platform from which to interact with others. But there is a notion tho that everything is open to the air and without a direct steering mechanism. Yes the world is broad and wide open, but our culture and social ways are not. Even with a limited number of active users (100's but not yet 1000's) often, there is already a cloaking of tribalism under the notion of civic action. Then there's the limit on the number of civic investigators, citizen muckrakers, and citizen reporters that might be needed and under whose guidance and beliefs will they organize themselves. Norm went so far as to mention that people on realneo might be far more likely to be investigated by the FBI and I would counter to say that over the last few months with realneo citizen activism there are probably far more people under scrutiny there than the FBi would ever care to handle. Where's that gonna go?

What if there were a few workshops or discussions on conflictive approaches, citizen investigation and muckraking. Perhaps then the overall community might grow to take on some focus that builds the information base up about the problems and moves attention toward generating solutions.


I take the loss of my daughter even more seriously

Let me put unreal NEO in a very real world context.

I just found out that my 15 year old daughter and her mother are moving from here to a place her mother feels has a better future - offers our daughter a better future. Both are very smart, talented people, and so a great loss for the future of this region.

Because of the poor future our leaders have planned for this region, I cannot say to either my daughter or her mother that they should stay.

I firmly believe that our leaders have made this place worse than 16 years ago, when we moved here from Austin, Texas, to grow my family here. I believe the failure and harm caused has accelerated over the past five years, and the plans here for the future will make it even worse in the five years ahead... which is long enough for me to say this is not the place for my daughter.

If she may escape to a better place - one that has for decades respected citizens and been led well by them - that altogether designed their community around real openness... social consciousness... environmentalism... education... technology... a promising new economy - why should she stay here.

I firmly believe if leaders here had worked harder and smarter for the past five years, my daughter would not be leaving next week.

Here is some of my writing on these problems, from three years ago - in this case identifying issues with Brad Whitehead - http://realneo.us/Gen-X-speaks-and-the-establshment-doesn-t-listen

As I have said, I will gladly elaborate, beyond the 1,000s of very clear postings I've put up here....

I do not believe the FBI needs to read REALNEO to find the corruption in this region, but they would be fools to ask many of our leaders where to look. Asking citizens seems far more intelligent, and I'm sure the FBI is doing plenty of that.

I take the loss of my community very seriously, and I take the loss of my daughter even more seriously.

Disrupt IT

Sorry, Norm.

 I'm sorry to hear your daughter is moving away. You're not losing her, sweet pea.

My daughter received full scholarship to Cleveland Institute of Art, Kansas City Art and Oregon Art. She chose to go to Portland, Oregon. I understood and I was very supportive, but it was hard. I mean, it would have been financially easier for her to stay here with us and attend CIA. She finished her BFA and my husband and I flew out for her graduation.

It took 65 minutes for me to realize she had been absolutely, undeniably correct in her choice. By the end of our trip I was so proud of her. Portland had everything she needed and fit her goals and aspirations perfectly. It fit who she is and who I had hopefully raised her to be.

A short time after her graduation she was facing career decisions. She had decided to enter the electricians trade union as an apprentice. Portland's program had a 3 month wait. Cleveland's had a 2 year wait. She wanted to come home and work as a coffee barrister ("or something") until a slot opened up. I told her "DON'T YOU DARE". I rarely say that to my kids, so she listened.

Now she's working her way through the program. She's bought a trailer, which she intends to place on land she will buy at some point. She has a really nice hippy cool slightly older boyfriend from Northern California cloth. She misses home and I miss her desperately. But, I couldn't be happier for her - she is all in her element. 

I wish Cleveland could offer this. But hell - they can't even come up with a decent bike transportation system, after years and how many dollars.... forget about it!

Shut out

  Understand that I'm right up there like the rest of you with my fill of crap that I see damaging our community. Many of the people that folks believe I'm being supportive of are actually people I've often butted heads with. But I still need to talk to them and I prefer to keep it that way. Because otherwise I'd be even more shut out and further from the goals being pursued.

GB--I hope that your strategy works.  Everything you have said here has real merit. I know you and I very much respect how hard you work everyday to represent those without a voice in NEO. We've all been shut out, too long.  (Please don't assume that the folks here are not also in discussion with the heads, butts, etc... Lighten up). 

GB--please don't ask me to attend, yet another, workshop...but if we do attend a workshop, as you recommend, we have to come as we are--in person--no aliases.  We here at REALNEO can also always/continue to work quietly/postively behind the scenes.  And, we do.

As the kids say--Peace Out :)

Glowbawl - Maybe I'm a little left Wing...


Hello GlowBawl,
The following quote (from you) is where I believe you are missing the boat and losing any real chance of reaching your objectives: 
 “But I still need to talk to them and I prefer to keep it that way. Because otherwise I'd be even more shut out and further from the goals being pursued.”
You do not need to “talk to them” – to achieve your goals.  As soon as you engage them you have guaranteed your failure.  The civic condition in Cleveland has deteriorated for at least the last 40 years. Look around, It is a total failure – and rotten.    You are going to engage the failed civic structure and make it change after 40 years?  Seriously?
 So Engagement = subservience and failure. 
Tell me honestly, that subservience  is not how you feel when you “talk to them”.  Tell me you don’t feel like you are jeopardizing your integrity – making nice – solely in order to pander to their authority…
You need to shut them out or you will be de facto negotiating with them, and they are hijackers…they are dishonest, they are hypocrites, they are civically corrupt – but they have the money, Right?   And they may not even recognize they have sold out…
They don’t have the best ideas or the most credibility – but they have the authority which comes with the money.   
That’s why you are still ready to “talk to them”.  But really then, you aren’t talking to them, but talking to their money.  
Forget them and their money, minimalize them, sideline them, ignore them – or will this make you feel too lonely and exposed?
Rely on yourself and your idealism.    Use your name.   Establish yourself as confident in your own ideas.  Be a leader. Challenge them publicly and directly. 
 Today you can affect the civic space with your time and passion - without money - much more easily than yesterday – because now we citizens can speak with one another directly, openly, and efficiently.
With the internet – your opinions and suggestions and criticisms can be fairly and effectively broadcast.    The Dirty Dealer (and the money based media) don’t have a monopoly anymore.  Soon, in fact, they will be gone.  
And you will find that the “authority”, to which you now feel you need to pander, will be forced to engage in civic dialogue (like this one here on Realneo – and like Councilman. Cummins does)  or they also will be gone. 
For example, when the Dirty Dealer closes next year, how, without an honest and open two way internet dialogue will Councilman Cimperman (and all the other mute Cleveland Councilors and “authorities” )  project a public persona?  They won’t.   Right now they are fearful (either because they cannot be intellectually persuasive or they are technically unable to use the social media) of entering open, two-way community wide dialogue. 
Right now they keep the discussion one on one, or one on a meeting room of people, moderated. I have met them in their offices and attended their “open” meetings…
These audiences are clearly under “top down” control.  
 The internet is flat - equitable.
So They (CDCs, Ward Councilors, County Commissioners, Greater Cleveland Partnership, Port Authority, UCI, Cleveland Foundation, Etc, etc) will be vulnerable to a new generation of civic leaders who are willing and able to enter open discussions via the new social media.   
You, Glowbawl, can establish yourself as having  “authority”  in this age of the new media    IN fact you have done so here on Realneo already (when is the last time you had 620 people read your opinion? - by viewing this thread)  – your concerns have been taken very seriously by your audience and your concerns have demanded considered respectful responses.   
Your suggestion (quoted here) is excellent -  
“What if there were a few workshops or discussions on conflictive approaches, citizen investigation and muckraking. Perhaps then the overall community might grow to take on some focus that builds the information base up about the problems and moves attention toward generating solutions.”
You can seek - with them  - the opportunity to provide such a workshop or discussion, or you can ignore them and organize the workshop right here on Realneo.  
I encourage you to host the event, post the event to the Realneo homepage, and provide your audience  the opportunity to advance their  citizen investigation and muckraking skills.  
I will be the first one to sign up!


flying flappable things

 uh common on Jeff... I didn't miss the boat, in fact the boat you describe is not one I'd get into. and I don't often count wings, in fact most of the things I would be concerned with are quite grassroots not flying flappable things. I've been trying to point out that much of the anger and divisiveness is more or less undermining and meanspirited. My discussion does center upon conflict, opposition and its resolution especially on a community level. I'll take any incremental change and hopefully try and hopefully to get a little more out of it... use it as the starting relational kernel for something else. That which you seem to be advocating would tend to lock up on you and you'd have a difficult time getting beyond any initial setbacks or encounter. Similarly the anger level that gets built up here and the aggressive tactics amongst members here at realneo might also lead to being snipped in the bud, ignored altogether, even not invited before conversation begins.

The notion of "Engagement = subservience and failure" is pretty limiting and intrinsically detrimental, it only leaves you the facility to be a bully or a loner. Having or creating understanding amongst other interests involved would be difficult with such a tactic. Would probably lead to getting left out of the loop...detrimental over the long term. Worse it undermines your best efforts on any future healthy engagement. Groups/people who disparage, accuse, malcomplain or create havoc are the easiest to remove from civic conversations. I've definitely personally experienced that happening all too often. You have the right to be included and don't want to be a source of weakening that thru a bad relationship.

Further you also get stuck within the politically undermining behavior that comes from having to say and treat with respect those that you want something out of, and then creating enemies with those who you view as your adversary (which is a major budding basis of corruption itself). Treating everyone with respect might not be your cup of tea, but its the only way you are going to be able to get an opportunity to communicate grievances with others and have them listen in earnest. At the end of a conflictive meeting I really feel it is important to be able to at least say a last friendly word and shake the hand of the person who has just lowered the boom on a request and then nicely tell him you'll give him a call. Couple days later call them in earnest and try and discuss it again as if there was something that can be worked out. Ironically this often results in somebody who could easy of been an adversary, now struggling to find some small minor way to attempt to appease you. But no there is no need for appeasement. This is just how a less powerful bit of opposition can work to build itself into a more accepted and basic opposition. You get caught sniping and it only makes things more impossible.

Perhaps a workshop directly on this might be a little to time-consuming for me, but I would be willing to at least drop some links to groups, movements and people who are like-minded and actually do have their own workshops.


Poclad is an obvious one that is pretty much akin to many of our regional issues..



Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund (CELDF)



Daniel Pennock Democracy School



Richard Grossman



 I do realize there is a backlogof comments, I am trying to figure out how to come up with the time to respond to them...sorry.


Peaceful anger

  You are right GB--I will try to keep the comments constructive.  But, blank walls and no answers, or condescending answers, make folks mad.    I have to spend/waste a lot of my time tracking down information.  If we as residents, did not investigate the affairs of some of the people I mentioned in that open post--we would have seen an important building in our neighborhood demolished by now...I would much rather spend my time--at block club picnics, music/art events or cleanups.   Some times the only way to get a response is to get a rise out of someone.  So, I have a right to be mad.  And you have a right to be critical of me. Peace out.

I'll stand by my words and elaborate fully

I have been a citizen of Northeast Ohio pretty much my whole life - years away for college and work and businesses around the world but back pretty solid for 15 years. In that time, I have been astounded by the poor performance of our current leaders. Most specifically, I have watched closely over the past five years to see the outcomes of Ronn Richards and his people at the Cleveland Foundation, and of the Gund Foundation, and their Fund For Four Economic Future, and all they fund and control, which turns out to be a staggering amount of publci tax dollars and people at a huge number of non-profits, CDCs and such in the region and especially in Cleveland - although it seems most of the people controlling all this do not live in Cleveland.

I've been watching our economic data closely and it is disastrous, and it is the result of close minded, closed-room planning of Our Economic Future, which has failed. The cluster model is wrong. The command and control model is wrong. The McKinsey old economy strategy is wrong. The Strategic Investment Initiative is wrong. Frank Jackson and City Council are acting wrongly in too many ways... their employees are committing crimes against citizens - CDCs seem to be enabling that - the FBI calls this the worst corruption they have ever seen... and we are the poorest city - and everyone is innocent... right?!?!

Five years - that's all they got.

I can go into details about my findings on whatever I've mentioned here, if people like - I've left things light and comfortable to allow people to do better in the future - but I do not accept the results of the past, or plans for the present - we need change here.

Very uncomfortable for many - I suppose.

I know the FBI is not intending to hold off on what they find about people, and that will be painful for many more.

Disrupt IT

i was starting to feel left out...

 and then I read my name! thank you, dear thing for remembering me and my nasty attitude (my husband finds it sexy, btw, so maybe you would do better to work on him...)

glowbawl, read your history. nice girls never get anywhere. one example - the suffrage movement. shit was hitting the fan - US girls were picking up the "in the street and in your face" tactics of those morally loose european gals and a war was brewing on the horizon. the rowdy US girls were told to SHUT IT dOWn! and support the war effort. remember - this was an era when women rarely went out on the street without a male escort, let alone marched in the street! a group of nice girls marched back to their kitchens and did exactly what they were told - but the girls who were truly rotten at the core? they said  "hell no", in fact they stepped it up a notch and before you knew it the 'POWers that be' sat down with those "nice" girls --- AND WOMEN COULD VOTE!

read up about the unions - working conditions before the unions - the hard brass tactics they employed - we at RealNEO are pussies compared to this shit! get real, glowbawl - and they are the reason any of us enjoy the few favorable working conditions that still exist here. 

this world is in a whole heap of a fucking mess and kumbaya niceness is NOT gonna get us out of it. There's a whole lot of selfish behavior out there and at least this gal is not gonna lay down and take it. Why - because I have to look my kids in the face on a regular basis. and i wasn't raised to be a patsy. 

here's an excerpt from Derrick Jensen, my new favorite author:

"Someone asked me once why I am so stress the positive with my students yet am such an unstinting critic of those who run our culture and who are killing the planet. i answered immediately, 'Power. If I've got power or authority over someone, its my responsibility to use that only to help them... if I see someone misusing power to harm someone else, its just as much my responsibility to stop them, using whatever means necessary.'" (emphasis added)  from Walking On Water

check him out, he's pretty cool. he's the author of As the World Burns: 50 Simple Things You Can Do to Stay in Denial.

"globally", we are living through the largest transfer of wealth this country has ever seen. from the absolute have-nots to the pricks who already have way too much and are so fucking selfish they don't care if millions die so they increase their wealth (check out derivatives trading in food staples and how the actions of the IMF have wiped out food autonomy in the countries that desperately need it).

you like Cleveland so much? wait a year. these public figures you are protecting - the cogs in the wheel - ensure money that comes into this city will do directly to the hands of the wealthy. do you know where TWDC money is going? do you know why they would selectively target a hard -working resident's home and have it comdemned? are we to be blamed for calling attention to this behavior? or because we use bad language when we do? - because frankly, glowbawl - this shit pisses me off - these are MY tax dollars paying these creeps and they spend their time on the public dole doing dirty work. you know, glowbawl, it very well may be that they are the very bastards that need their motives called out.

Greed is one of the seven deadly sins.... not calling people names. especially when they damn well deserve it.

one last thing - no one here has ever made a call to violence. please review the line between free speech (which i ASSume you are a proponent of) and "words used ...in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils" Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919). so your insinuation that our words are going to somehow lead to a brouhaha or fist-a-cuffs is disingenous at best.

sorry if I'm being HARSH with you, you are just really getting on my nerves with your kumbaya garbage....

ps - why didn't you call out Roldo?


Thanks, Way To Go Glowball!!!!

You go and really piss the lady off, then you will probably disappear, and the rest of us have to deal with her...

Don't you know that ASSuming that people are nice because they are stupid is a big mistake,

...and ASSuming that people are nice because they don't know how to be rotten is even a bigger a mistake!

So, just a word of advice for you in the future, just in case you are too dense to have figured this out already, if you PISS off the NICE ones, you had better be ready to DUCK!!!!!!

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

darn it, dewolfe...

 you had to comment on my comment. now i can't go back and edit out my cuss words....

i want you to know, i did not just fly off the handle - that was a two day simmer. the more i thought about it, the more i thought - how dAre he? you know glowbawl, just because some of us get pissed off about the wretched state of our society and the wretched state of Cleveland politics in particular, doesn't mean we are bad people. In fact quite contrary. and i'm sure you are a nice person as well, but don't expect everyone else to see things through your eyes. and before you start telling other people what to do and how to do it - try doing it yourself.

one more tidbit from Derrick Jensen's book, quoting William Torrey Harris, U.S. commissioner of education from 1889 to 1906:

"Ninety-nine (students) out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual." Walking on Water: Reading, Writing and Revolution

anyway, glowbawl, if you have better ways to call out crappy behavior on the part of public servants, do me a favor and model it. maybe i'll like it so much i'll adopt it my self. 

for the other nine types of people

Just a couple of cautionary suggestions

Glowbawl -

Regarding your statements:

"There's been quite a few witchhunts lately and I'm surprised some haven't started sharpening the hayforks. I can picture a new diy workshop on how to properly make torches and bonfires. There is a heck of alot of talk about putting your foot in someones backside"

"All it would take is for one out of many of such rants to grow into a knock down drag out fight, or for someone to retaliate either on the person being written about or the writer themselves. The internet is not so hands free that that kind of misfortune can't happen. I know there's probably more than a couple readers who will get to this point in reading with the attitude of.."yep, let's get it on". Unfortunately I fear it would be all too easy to prove my point, but I do hope that folks can pull back and take a breather. It would be nice to end it here and say, don't hurt anybody...but I know some will find a reason to argue on this."

... it could easily be said that you were very publiclly making threats against some people who post here on this site. I do hope that isn't your intention, as I am sure that you're intentions are pure and innocent.

I am not a member of the legal profession, but you just might wonder about clarifying yourself, or edit your post a little bit, lest some of what you are mentioning come to pass, and you are finding yourself unhappy that you posted such things.

You might consider contacting those posters that you seem to be so concerned with on this site directly by their posted e-mails, rather than making such a public display if your thoughts.



clarifying yourself

Clarification is needed. I haven't the slightest idea to what or to whom you refer, Glowbawl. I can't engage because I don't know what the topic is. You seems to be accusing "some writers" (which ones?) of attacking unjustly someone (who?). Not only do you not identify yourself, you seem to be prepared to be the intervening social worker without revealing the conflict that you seek to mediate. Care to explain a bit more?

trivial spectacles

:::::What is it going to take for folks to really laydown a rant about community and fairness that everyone can believe in and have a part of?:::::::::

It will take our public servants to behave according to the law and at least make an attempt to include all members of the community in their decisions, not just those with money and power.

And if they have delicate feelings, they may not want to be in politics.



REALNEO is a unique cooperative social network, free and open to all, which you own along with everyone else a member here, so your feelings are as important as anyone else's. One way to help improve the cooperative community will be to participate as an active member, posting here - consider revealing your identity, when it fits your comfort zone - and pursue a role on our board or an advisory board - Jeff Buster and I are probably the most active in putting that together but there are many very active members - all are welcome to help lead us all forward.

Invite anyone who feels hurt or challenged by the community to address that openly here... and as part of the cooperative leadership. There are no restrictions on how active one may be.

REAL COOP is a legal non-profit cooperative that owns REALNEO.US - I've donated my interests in that to the COOP - and I have proposed a $10 million open source social computing community development initiative to Commissioner Jones and many of the directors at the County and have every reason to believe that will proceed, which will shift all our focus to developing "Citizen Dashboard", which will integrate all social networks, citizens, organizations, and government - all people and entities - in a purposeful and optimal virtual community experience that insures there are never times again where an FBI director describes our community as the most corrupt he has ever seen.

For now, there are no comfort zones in the region, that I know of - I expect 100s if not 1,000s of people in our frayed networks to be investigated by the FBI, not by anyone on REALNEO. The journalists on REALNEO seem to identify themselves as such - the rest of us are citizens with journals.

Disrupt IT


Submitted by questministries on March 29, 2009 - 2:57pm.

--------------  FULL, UNCENSORED VERSION  ------------
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Dr. Steven Greer's Disclosure Project  

Comfort zone?

  Let business as usual continue in NEO? I am curious to see how what you describe as the destructive counterside of dialogue plays itself out.  Please define dialogue with a healthy comfort zone.  Voices and Choices? 

Many of the good folks here and throughout NEO participated in the Voices and Choices effort and put forth their best to make it work.  Why did it not work?  I am not giving you a hardtime GB...Let's acknowledge the problem and move on to constructive action.  We need a better model.  Silence doesn't solve problems.


GB--how do we take the conversation somewhere?  (Can I also say this?---Isn't it nice to be able to have a discussion and to have folks listen to your concerns? :)

new E-(in)volving social...read sometimes ugly...E-media

I can relate to Glowball's post as well as most of the comments in the thread. 

I particularly like Peter’s tagline mention of “10 types of people” those who understand binary and those who don't.

It reminds me of times people have told me, or asked me, why do you post on realneo?...you shouldn’t post THERE with THOSE people.

Most of the folks posting here are well intended, fairly bright, inquisitive, and yes, some are pissed as hell and can be a real downer sometime.

But, in this age of evolving social media, with twitter and facebook-walls, one sentence fluff snippets, trailing threads with copies of text not edited out on listserve digest messages, and the various individual blogs…realneo seems to me one of the more obvious places that one would post to convey issues about the Cleveland community.

The pissing attitudes and occasional personal attacts I believe are fairly well off-set by the more cheery posts of photos and good news pieces…all in all I see it as one of the better sites for some informative information sharing and a humble version of an e-coffee shop which my community is sorely lacking in terms of being able to easily run into people and vet ideas and info.

What I think can be most interesting is the culture that is developed and that can be influenced on sites such as these. 

The ebb and flow of negative or positive postings, the occasional need to take some discussions off-line and to reach out and email, call or thankfully run into someone, live and in the flesh as opposed to airing anger and negativity completely in the open on this site.

I’ve also been warned to not “feed the beast”.  The beast being either individuals or groups of community members, or organizations… assuming that it is too much trouble to engage with people that can make trouble for anyone in authority.

In my experience, discourse, discussion, arguments, pushing boundaries and sometimes comfort zones are a part of the productive process.  Balancing it all with trying to find consensus and actually moving something forward in a positive and impactfull way is always challenging. 

Also, keeping quite at times and allowing for more diverse voices and ultimately respecting and promoting what I believe we hope is a productive social space is important.

So yes, please do post your happenings and opinions.  Ones participation here can have an impact on the culture of the site.  A bit of thick skin can sometimes be helpful as a biting of ones tongue and a pause (or overnight reflection) before you comment.

One last thought I share often…the popular chant of activist in Seattle at the World Trade Organization protests in 1999 –


REF: http://www.thisisdemocracy.org

Chaotic, ugly, insulting and when it works beautiful and life changing.

It’s a human condition.

Anyone else have useful links to better understand this weblog/communications'social metworking phenomenon?

For example see:

No One Owns Journalism: Discussion Paper for BloggerCon Two.


Brian Cummins.

Ain't pretty

It ain't pretty Brian,  but at least you will answer questions (sometimes)...

Everyone has a right to ask questions.   

Thanks Brian, but point of difference - transparency is King

Good thoughts Brian - I'll disagree on one point - where the truth is concerned, we all can be as transparent as we want to be.  I don't prefer attacks, but we have a right to cry foul when justifiable transgressions have been made.  And we aren't just fairly bright, our core realneo people are downright brilliant.  I've always been positive out here, always advocating a more loving way of life and serving those underserved.  The beauty of realneo is the transparency and accessibility it offers anyone, whether they are founding members of nearly five years, or homeless newcomers.  Chris Bongorno of UCI did complain to me about caustic and toxic comments of others and he may have a good point.   Framing our conversations could create less discord. This is why I don't play that way. I seek truth, justice and equity.

Each of us on realneo get a fair chance to be part of this community and contribute- preferably in helpful, energizing, sustainable ways.  I have never been toxic in my comments and have always sought truth. By the way, what an amazing Synergy Conference today at the Convention Center - Did you go?. 

 Six hours with emphasis on serving those underserved.   And great connections.   The City is on point with this one!  Writeup on this soon.   There could be improvements to forum design  to consider for next year, as Simmie Davis has nicely pointed out on my Facebook.  Yet the ARRA Stimulus Books were warmly welcomed.  The key will be : how fairly will the RFP's for these be considered and awarded?  The selection and award process should be transparent as well.

Thanks Brian, nice to have a fan...

There are also 2 other types of people in the world.

There are the critics, and there are those with a sense of humor.

We tend to have too many of the former, and too few of the latter,

...but then again, I am just being critical :-)

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Good to hear your talk, Bill

Good talk today, Bill McD (Peter and The Wolf, lol)  I Open was fun.  I like your alias  (Peter N Dewolfe) - and I most certainly understand binary - as well  as have a sense of humor.   Love it.