Ultimate Fighting - sport or heathenism?
Submitted by Jeff Buster on Thu, 09/10/2009 - 09:44.
In off line discussions with several folks who are users at Realneo, I have heard concerns about the intense – perhaps too intense – nature of engagement here at Realneo.
Has Realneo taken on the ring intensity of Ultimate Fighting? Do you have to be ready for a kick in the head? How will this guy fare?
In the next few days I will submit a few ultimate fighting images, see if you relate to them in some way when you report or comment on Realneo.
Just for fun….
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where's your line?
where's your line, Jeff? what constitutes "too intense"?
Is disagreement too intense?
Is critique of irrationality too intense?
Is naming of bad behavior too intense?
Is name-calling too intense?
Wait 'til you see who is in the other side of the ring!
Hello dbra.
I look forward to your opening tomorrow night - I noticed it was covered by Cool Cleveland with their link to the Gallery, Mastroianni Arts .
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I think what I was hearing from a few folks was that everyone has a different comfort level with intense engagement, and if Realneo is to develop a full picture of our civic space, we need to be sensitive to the fact that some individuals are not comfortable with in-your-face kicking.
Personally I love to debate (wait til you see who is in the other side of the ring!), but is the goal here on Rn to KO the other party in our discussion, or to provide a civic, civil space for full depth honest discussion engaging as much of the community as possible?
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Don't blink while thinking of your answer...you might get whalloped!
best,
jeffb
right?
I also fell for the bet - "Heads I win, Tails you lose" until I was about 24... (who you callin' naive???)
Thanks for the head-up on my show. I sent out notice to a number of publications (its what we do promoting our shows). BTW, I should have mentioned Ron Knight, who is showing with me. His stuff is fab! Knock-out, if you will. More here.
As for the name-calling issue - I think its important to distinguish between calling someONE a name and labelling a behavior. For instance, its one thing to call someone a racist, quite another to say "that's racist ideology" or "that's racist thinking".
The latter helps clarify the argument, identify the irrationality of a premise and "calls out" bad thinking.
the goals
JeffB, we do need to have this conversation about goals. I am really feeling both pissed off and turned off of realneo because dialogue is important and isn't happening often.(though Susan has my heart on this). It has great possibilities, but we are not there. And I don't know if we can with posers coming on to have some fun without rules. It ramps up the discord.
giving where it went
tonight, I thought of Jeff Buster's posting and needed to see it again as a reminder of the verbal battering that isn't that far off from the physical in terms of harm to the physic vs the body. I know that some find the photo brutal, but brutality has not been engaged yet.
Name calling is too intense
It is degenerates the dialogue to child's play.
name calling
is overt, using nice words to convey hate or insinuation covertly is more damaging. Neither is acceptable.
Don't bother with the images - help plan our meeting
The hard core name calling is all the result of scabs who set up accounts to be disruptive - some have been sophisticated about it and others not. Think about who these scabs are and have been and treat them accordingly.
I view this community like I view my street, coming out my front door... I never know who I will see or meet or who any of them really are.
Today, at 8:30 AM, a stranger walking by stopped to say how nice the house and our garden looked, and we wished each other a nice day. A few minutes later, a neighbor who has lived here far longer than myself - since childhood - gave a friendly hello. I don't know any of them, but we can have good interactions.
Other days have not started or ended so well. I've been attacked on my street, even by neighbors.
Why should I expect life to be any different online.
Jeff, we who face violence daily don't need it brought into our world here, unless you captured it in person and are reporting it as news. I consider our virtual community more civilized than that.
You want ultimate fighting... I'll try to get you some pictures of one of the bitch-slap fights in the yard across the street... or perhaps we can hunt down some pictures of the 17 year old nearly beaten to death at St. Roccos...
Disrupt IT
the image
The image doesn't portray violence, just that it is around the corner. I have thought of you often, Norm, as you have given us the photos of the kids, one with a bat, and the upheaval that you face. I live in a similar position. One of the skills that I don't brag about is being able to tell 911 if the gunshots are from an automatic, a revolver, a shotgun, or a rifle. My newer neighbors moved their bedroom from the front of their house to the middle because of fear of the gunfire that comes and goes. A man died a few feet from by house last year in a drug deal went bad. It sucks when our homes lives and family are in an unsafe position.
I don't think, though, that these images are a problem. The new posters that comes on to disrupt our dialogue are successful part of the time, but it looks like they are short-term. I find accusations and insinuations among those that we are in conversation with here regularly to be far more damaging in the long run. I guess that this is the nature of public forums, and while I am searching for my comfort zone, I will defend the right of even idiots to have their say, as long as I am not censored for politely telling them to go get fucked. Once we censor them, can you or I being censored be far behind?
Here's a good example of
Here's a good example of hateful fighting words (in my opinion):
Kevin O'Brien's recent editorial regarding Obama's declaration of September 11th as a National Day of Service and Remembrance.
He doesn't engage in name-calling (except the term "empty-headed") but I find his words violent and destructive. They certainly don't challenge thinking.
Not an O'Brien fan myself.
Not an O'Brien fan myself. But, they do allow his words to be printed in the Plain Dealer.
I am also not a fan of name calling but would it really help to censor what is written? When someone starts calling names and getting emotional with words it can help the reader understand the passion and the anger behind the words. I don't know if it would help to keep this site real if all this passion was removed, even if it would make it a nicer and more pleasant read, it might just remove something that makes it more real than reading a newspaper that has been edited. Just my opinion as a newcomer to this site.
Remember the old saying, sticks and stones....
passion fatigue
Ward14resident: you impress me. You cut through it all and say the real stuff about keeping it real on realneo. Thank you.
The real deal versus the FOX fraud
Who's making noise?
Is it a $3,000 Honda Civic with an after-market exhaust and mega-loud muffler, or is it a $300,000 Ferrari F40 LM that's all OEM?
Which is the real race car, and which is the nightmare--the fraud?
It's the resonance, originality and quality of the sound that should be observed, not just the volume.
Discernment, I think that's the word of the day. Though unfortunately it seems that in America, too often we're more likely to run to the store to buy margarine, while throwing away a complimentary tub of hand-churned butter just given to us by our local co-op farmer. Which also explains why too many find themselves captivated by the very loud FOX fraud.
I've worked in a lot of pizza joints and a lot of high-end French Restaurants. It's a very wide spectrum, but my criteria for working in each place was the same. Was the business legit? Was the food of exceptional quality? Were the owners committed to their product. Were we offering something memorable, unique, irresistable?
It never mattered to me if the people working with me were particularly friendly, the bigger question was were they honest? Were they committed? As an artist, I would even say that holds all the more true.
Go into a celebrated chef's kitchen and dare to ask a question about the relevance of passion, and you'll be lucky to make it out alive!
When something great is cooking in the (literal or metaphorical) kitchen, alot of noise is bound to be made. But noise alone does not signal quality, cause if you look down you might just see a couple of toddlers on the floor beating pots and pans with a spatula.
It's intense and definitely noisy, but no meal is gonna come from it. That's for sure.
Eternity