I understand your argument - but I understand his too.

we sell out way too much - like a woman who stays with a real jerk for a boyfriend, because she's afraid she'll never get better. not a gOOd choice... same concept.

selling out has its limits.

I have not always agreed with Ralph Nader, but I've always admired and respected his position(s).  The man stays true to his convictions, no matter what.  And as well, the same can be said of Dennis Kucinich.

Dennis, like Nader, does come off a little loopy and idealistic, and yet he remains a person of integrity.  Words that can be said of another leftist visionary, The Honorable Cynthia McKinney--former Georgia Congresswoman, who like Kucinich and Nader, has consistently railed against the evils of Anglo-Israeli Imperialism, cut-throat capitalism, corporate cronyism, slave-wage poverty, union-busting, the cover-up of Operation 911 and the corporate-military-media-pharmaceutical-industrialist complex from day one--consistently with no apologies.

Now there's something we need more of!

Still, none of these people should be idolized or worshiped, for they are not Gods.  Instead what they are, are American heroes who have earned and deserve full respect.  Absolutely!

Eternity

I know that you have never fully appreciated Kucinich, Roldo, and while I don't know the why's of that, I will respect that you have reasons that bring you to this stand. I have had my share of disagreements with Kucinich, especially over title X funds for women in other countries. He finally saw the light, but a lot of damage was done.  He also voted to impeach Bill Clinton in what was clearly a farce. So he has had his moments of stupidity and I can bet that you can point out more. It is hard to imagine the guy who came up with the department of peace approaching Bush with open arms, though. That is a subjective interpretation that is over the top. 

All things considered, I rather Kucinich vote no on a bill that he believes does a disservice to the future of this country. I'd have to say that I admire the politcos that have the backbone to stay with their convictions unless they are right wing Republicans. 

I've had a lot of  experience with Dennis. I like him personally and very much admire some of the difficult stands that he's made. I often defended him during that awful two-year period when he was mayor. But I also criticized him when I thought he was wrong and it was necessary to say so.

I think what I wrote was rather mild. This is such an important issue, not only for those who don't have coverage and who have pre-existing medical conditions, but to the presidency of Obama. The Republicans are not just trying to defeat a health bill they are trying to  bring down a president, just as they did with Bill Clinton. Votes have to be made with those factors in mind, not just with an amendment a Congressman wants.

 at the end of the day, Roldo, you are right as usual. I missed the very salient point of the whole picture vs. the amendment and popular standing. Thank you for clarifying. I think that it all does tie in together, the loss of two governships and even the crappy outcome of the state and local issues here. This is a repeat of the history that gave us Reagan. The emotions are being flamed by the right wingers, people are buying it, and if the Democrats return to the pre-Dean disarray, Obama will fall.

Kucinich voted NO on the health care bill. 

Ask him to explain the sell-out and the high-minded, principle behind that.

  FTR, I am disgusted in both politicians...their votes are deplorable.  Also for the record--John Conyers, co-sponsor of the Conyers-Kucinich Health Care Plan--voted YES.

Obama does not need to be coddled.  And of this, which Roldo and oh so many others seems to think is justifiable to treat Obama like their boyfriend instead of the President of this nation, for FEAR of the big-bad-wolf Republicans huffing and puffing and blowing our flimsy-ass Democratic door down.  In so far as, Roldo recently wrote in a prior comment here "This is such an important issue...to the presidency of Obama. The Republicans are not just trying to defeat a health bill they are trying to  bring down a president", at what point does it become acceptable for one to dissent within one's own family--party?  And...hey, doesn't that kind of mentality seem a bit herdish--like we're all supposed to be slap-happy with tags in our ears milling around like a bunch of penned up sheep?

Hello???? This is textbook, dysfunctional family behaior, and I have no interest in it. 

I support Obama--voting for him and will again in 2012--and I support Kucinich, whom I would have voted for if I lived in Ohio. 

Dissent, not fear, is a healthy, essential part of democracy.  And I admire and respect anyone who is willing to break away from the heard, like Cao the sole Republican who voted in support of the House's healthcare bill, in order to take a stand for what they believe, especially if it means raising the bar--challenging ourselves to higher standards.

People blamed Nader in 2000, though I actually voted for Gore, for costing the Democrats the election.  What a load of shit!  Nader did nothing wrong, but Bush sure did steal a hell of a lot of votes, primarily by disenfranchising Blacks.  Though of course, it didn't hurt that his pappy had already stacked the deck of the Supreme Court--voting in his favor, and that his brother was the governor of the state in question--Florida.  And it didn't hurt either that his cousin was working at FOX News, declaring Bush the winner, even before the election was to be over.

So, lets get this blame game right.

OBAMA VOWED IN MANY OF HIS PRE-ELECTION SPEECHES THAT HE WOULD FIGHT FOR SINGLE-PAYER HEALTHCARE.  So, why in the hell don't we blame him for being a fu*king wuss, instead of henpecking Kucinich to death for holding the President accountable?

Can I get an amen up-in-here?

But let me say this, at the end of the day, I'm grateful for both Obama and Kucinich, because even on their worst days, they are a hell of a lot better than the criminally-insane, Bush Junta.

Praise be to God!

Eternity

 Obama and Kucinich have one thing in common---both were put in place by a locally corrupt party machine.  Obama has shown to be far more effective at dramatic  societal change than the other. 

How much is each politician obligated to political payback?  Well, we'll just have to wait and see.  Remember--Kucinich was politically dead from 1979 to 1995 and had nothing to run on until the party remade him as the populist they needed against rich, elitist Martin Hoke.  But, we have short memories around here.  And, so it goes...

BTW--This is my opinion and I am entitled to it. And, everyone else here is entitled to their own.

So what if he shook hands with George W. Bush?   That's not a substantive criticism.  Get real, Roldo.   Dennis gave his reasons for his vote.  Agree or disagree.  He gave a thorough explanation for his vote.  Quit being so fucking silly.  

The Obama administration is to be commended for addressing the number one issue literally killing us, our economy and our citizenry.

I am personally amazed, so far, that despite our national divisiveness, which continues to pit the haves against the have-nots,  President Obama has made tremendous strides in helping us all recognize that "there, but for the grace of God, we go."

He has shown himself to be a leader who wants to lift everyone, not just the elite few, to the top.  Pray for him and pray for all of us.

Eternity: Who said anything about never criticizing Obama. You should examine your professed support of Obama with your constant criticism of him.

Theo669: Nothing silly at all about the final paragraph. Put it together with the points I tried to make about why Kucinich should have voted for the health plan, which you conveniently ignore.

I'm giving Obama lots of leeway and hoping he'll succeed, knowing what he is up against and what the alternative is. No apology for that. But thanks for your comments Eternity.

 Again I thank you for clarifying the big picture, Roldo. I am not happy with a lot of stuff but I have got to say that Obama had done overall a good job, and he has Congress to deal with, all the conservative Democrats and Republicans that must pass the legislation that gets amended so much that it looks nothing like the original bill.

If the Democrats don't pull together and stand up to the growing tide of rhetoric coming out of the conservative groups, in three years we will be even more unhappy. I think debate is a healthy activity, but what we have coming out of Washington is beyond that.

We will probably have the Republican candidates announce themselves in about a year, then it will be a free for all attack on Obama and every strong Democrat. We also have U.S. Senate races coming up, the primary is just months away, and the fear mongers have primed the nation for the Republicans regaining control.

Time for a strong third party to emerge.  One that takes the good from both the Republican and the Democrat parties and discards the junk to form a brand new party that is fresh and clean. 

On working with the City of Cleveland to take the Diocese properties by eminent domain?  I would like to see him really take on this David and Goliath fight to the finish.  He threw the stone out there.   Don't run away from the fight, Kucinich.